Unit related questions

[Blatta Optima Maxima]

Is this unit realistic? If so, what was it's place in the sassanid army?

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What kind of weapon is that:

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[Blatta Optima Maxima]

6 views and no answers.

Nice.

[julianus heraclius]

The answer to your first question is that these troops are meant to be imitation legionaries (JangAvaran-i Sassani). Apparently the sassanids attempted to copy roman heavy infantry by having some infantry units more heavily armed. They would not have been very common. The basic infantry troop type for the sassanids was still their levy spearmen and their infantry archers but did have smatterings of much more heavily armed troops whether they were Sughdian Warriors (Arteshtâr-î Khwârâsân), Ghilani Infantry ( Arteshtâr-î Gêlânîg), Daylam Infantry (Arteshtâr-î Daylamîg), or their more heavily armed infantry (Paighân-î Sassâni) and imitation legionaries (JangAvaran-i Sassani).

Of course the imitation legionaires could also be seen as dismounted savaran if you wish. Either way, these more heavily armed troops would be limited in quantity.

As to your second question, these Kushan infantry are armed with a Sagaris (a form of two handed axe).

Cheers

[Blatta Optima Maxima]

Oh, was just wondering, as ImperiumIV said they're overpowered. You could check that.


And that does not look like a sagaris. It looks more like a pickaxe/hammer to me.

[julianus heraclius]

Oh, was just wondering, as ImperiumIV said they're overpowered. You could check that.

Well, they are heavily armed infantry but no more than roman legionaires and as I said would not constitute a large part of the sassanid army.

And that does not look like a sagaris. It looks more like a pickaxe/hammer to me.

Hmm, good point. I've just used that model from the previous IB mods. Can you enlighten me on the sagaris then??

Cheers

[Blatta Optima Maxima]

Well, if the sassanids still used the age-old scythian sagaris, it would look more like this

P.S. I know what daylamites are.

P.P.S. The infantry version of sagaris had a straighter, longer handle and a broader blade.

[Valentinian Victor]

I've never heard or read of the Sasanids having 'imitation legionaries', where has this information come from?

Anyway, we know that during the 4th Century AD the Sasanids did dismount their mounted troops to bolster their infantry, who the Romans generally despised. This may well have happened at the Battle of Muranga.

Treat these troops as dismounted cataphracts and asavaran.

[Blatta Optima Maxima]

The sassanids did have the deylamites, who were excellent and disciplined heavy infantry, even romans praise them, but I too have never heard of sassanid imitation legionaires.

[Valentinian Victor]

The sassanids did have the deylamites, who were excellent and disciplined heavy infantry, even romans praise them, but I too have never heard of sassanid imitation legionaires.

I know of no 4th Century AD author who viewed the Sasanid infantry with anything other than utter contempt. It would be useful to supply some quotes or references.

[Blatta Optima Maxima]

The deylamites are not standard sassanid infantry. They were proffesional elite heavy infantry and were respected by the romans. Won't be able to find sources now, but doubt they would be included in the mod if they didn't exist.

[Valentinian Victor]

The deylamites are not standard sassanid infantry. They were proffesional elite heavy infantry and were respected by the romans. Won't be able to find sources now, but doubt they would be included in the mod if they didn't exist.

I think they more properly belong to the 5th Century, and the only 'professional' infantry I know of that existed were those who defending the Sasanid field wall fortification known as the 'Snake'.

[julianus heraclius]

The idea about a more heavily armed, imitation legionaire comes from this statement, either by the Persian Cataphract or Kambiz, both whom I understand have a very good knowledge on all things Sassanid, certainly better than myself. I don't pretend to be an expert on the Sassanids, again I rely on people like Gaiten, the Persian Cataphract or Kambiz.

-Sassanian swordsmen (in fact imitated legionaries) [Parsi : "JangAvaran-i Sassani"] : Both Romans and iranians learnt so much of each others during centuries of war against each others. Actually ,Historians believe that at 5-6 century armies of both empires were so close to eachothers ,Though romans still were infantry based army while sassanids were heavy cavalry based army.
We in IBFD dev. forum reached to the conclusion that Sassanids perhaps used kinda imitated legionaries. These troops were equally armoured and had sword and shield ,but probably no javelins. Also their skills were less than their roman counterparts.

It may well be a fact that these troops did not come into play till the 5th C. So they can be either 4th C dismounted Savaran and/or later extra heavy sassanid infantry.

For the sake of the mod they will be referred to as either dismounted Savaran or extra heavy infantry. Either way, they are still a limited unit type amongst the Sassanid army.

[Blatta Optima Maxima]

Well, "that I know of" is not quite to be considered a source.

[Valentinian Victor]

Well, "that I know of" is not quite to be considered a source.

Unless anyone supplies a 'source' then thats all we have to go on at present. I've got many books, journal articles, papers etc that contain information about the Sasanids. Whilst things may have changed from the 5th Century AD onwards (a period I'm not entirely familiar with), the Late Roman sources before that date are uniformly scathing about the abilities of Sasanid Infantry upto the 5th Century AD. That's not to say that Sasanid infantry were entirely useless, they proved useful during sieges, and managed to beat off two legiones attempting a night attack on the Sasanid Kings camp during the siege of Amida.

[Blatta Optima Maxima]

Because most of the sassanid "infantry" were untrained peasants, who were used to carry supplies, dig trenches and cater their lords (the knights).

[Prince of Judah]

JangAvaran i-Sassani seem to be tougher than palatina units. Is this meant to be?

[Blatta Optima Maxima]

Probably not.


Edit: Well, I tested them, and the results:

[Gäiten]

The Sassanians could recruit their heavy infantry forces among many warlike people (Armenians, Iberians, Albani, Lazi, Daylami, Kushans, Hyrcanians, people of Gurgan, Kurds, people of Afghanistan, Arabs, Sughdians, India, Persia, Medes and many more. Most were mercenaries, battle-hardened veterans, recruited as need arised.
That arm of their army is a very neglected by many people because the splendid Asavaan cavalry had stolen the attention of many.

The Roman infantry was mostly better organized, but they were not as superior as many believe.

[Valentinian Victor]

The Sassanians could recruit their heavy infantry forces among many warlike people (Armenians, Iberians, Albani, Lazi, Daylami, Kushans, Hyrcanians, people of Gurgan, Kurds, people of Afghanistan, Arabs, Sughdians, India, Persia, Medes and many more. Most were mercenaries, battle-hardened veterans, recruited as need arised.
That arm of their army is a very neglected by many people because the splendid Asavaan cavalry had stolen the attention of many.

The Roman infantry was mostly better organized, but they were not as superior as many believe.

In which case, why were the Sasanids unable to defeat any Late Roman army during the timeframe of this mod in a field battle?

[Blatta Optima Maxima]

In which case, why were the Sasanids unable to defeat any Late Roman army during the timeframe of this mod in a field battle?

Weren't they?

Anyways, the romans mostly had a numerical edge. Most of the "soldiers" in the sassanid army were paighan, soldiers' serveants. Even though they almost never fought, the romans still counted them as soldiers.