Third Age: Total Dull...

[eugenioso]

... or at least thats what happens afterwards in the game. despite the early game being a trepid yet thrilling experience, by the time mid game is reached (the point when your economy is stable and your borders are secure) the experience begins to die down, to finally end by the mid-end game when you find out you will have to fight a long, boring and dull battle of attrition to the enemy capital.

i get it though. as the game progresses you find it easier. it makes all the sense in the world, and im not berating about that. what i criticise is the lack of action required to get an army all the way from the ports of Lindon to rohan, gondor or even mordor. basically you grow stronger and stronger until you get to a point where, short of declaring war on the good people of middle earth, you get landlocked. then there is no choice. either be morally correct and send a massive host south from the outset to destroy sauron, or risk war with your allies.

[MasterBigAb]

And the purpose of creating a new thread for stating that ?

[Muffer Nl]

None.

[Hallow]

I hope you have some Flame Resistant Clothing handy.

[Jean=A=Luc]

...from the ports of Lindon

So is this a High Elf specific issue for you or a general one? If you're landlocked by your allies you can always get military access to move your armies across their land. Once you capture some more developed towns "on the other side" and rise their culture high enough things will get a bit easier though it will still take quite a bit of time.

You can always play a faction that's positioned further to the east if this is a big problem for you.

Edit: Ok, quit spamming already. The late game is a legitimate issue (more for some than others) though I wish the OP had come up with a less hyperbolic topic name.

Edit2: Emperor, I'm warning you. Enough's enough, you're not contributing. If you have problems pm me or report me.

[Smaug]

I think the man has a point. In every campaign I inevitably reach the point where it is hard see the purpose of continuing to play. So obvious is the eventual victory. The sad thing is that for some reason this seems to happen always just before being just ready to begin the final offensive to take over your enemy (f.ex. invading Mordor as Gondor).

Actually TATW is an improvement in that sense because M2TW reaches the point even quicker. Kudos for the one who makes significant progress in solving this problem. I think this is somehow connected to stack spam and the fact that there is no such thing as decisive battles if not the last siege before annihilation.

[Heart of Madness]

... or at least thats what happens afterwards in the game. despite the early game being a trepid yet thrilling experience, by the time mid game is reached (the point when your economy is stable and your borders are secure) the experience begins to die down, to finally end by the mid-end game when you find out you will have to fight a long, boring and dull battle of attrition to the enemy capital.

i get it though. as the game progresses you find it easier. it makes all the sense in the world, and im not berating about that. what i criticise is the lack of action required to get an army all the way from the ports of Lindon to rohan, gondor or even mordor. basically you grow stronger and stronger until you get to a point where, short of declaring war on the good people of middle earth, you get landlocked. then there is no choice. either be morally correct and send a massive host south from the outset to destroy sauron, or risk war with your allies.

Are you serious?

[Liamar]

I have not once won any game in M2TW, not only third age.
I never even been to mordor.
Last time when I've sent 5 stacks to aid gondor, I had to give all remaining evil factions 100k gold every turn via cheats, just to have any fun at all before uninstalling the game. It's just that every battle looks the same, and ends the same. It becames dull as soon as I'am able to spere any troops from my land's defence.
I allways felt that M2TW was missing something. And since it's all about battles, and more dull battles I must say that it lacks politics, intrigue, more complex administration and management, and factions re-emergence. So if a settlement goes rebel, due to your inabillity to comprehend this complex management of this many cities, it may after few turns re-emerge as faction it originally belonged too, backstabbing suplies line for the front, and starting a fire which spreads quickly to other settlements forcing you to abaddon your ally's and let them fall prey too the dark one.
But NOOOOooo, all you get is defeating your enemie faction by faction, battle by battle. That's just boring.

Not that I don't appreciate astonishing work KK and team have done. It's the best mod ever, and I will return to it many many times.

[MasterBigAb]

I have not once won any game in M2TW, not only third age.
I never even been to mordor.
Last time when I've sent 5 stacks to aid gondor, I had to give all remaining evil factions 100k gold every turn via cheats, just to have any fun at all before uninstalling the game. It's just that every battle looks the same, and ends the same. It becames dull as soon as I'am able to spere any troops from my land's defence.
I allways felt that M2TW was missing something. And since it's all about battles, and more dull battles I must say that it lacks politics, intrigue, more complex administration and management, and factions re-emergence. So if a settlement goes rebel, due to your inabillity to comprehend this complex management of this many cities, it may after few turns re-emerge as faction it originally belonged too, backstabbing suplies line for the front, and starting a fire which spreads quickly to other settlements forcing you to abaddon your ally's and let them fall prey too the dark one.
But NOOOOooo, all you get is defeating your enemie faction by faction, battle by battle. That's just boring.

I honstly have to say you got a point there, i mainly have to agree.

[*Ranger*]

I dont like the topic title as it should say Medieval 2 Total Dull, TATW has increased the playability of M2TW by many many years for me. But yeah the vanilla M2TW game has many flaws

[Shocked]

I try to improve it by setting certain goals for myself. As the dwarves I get a sense of satisfaction from slaughtering a large number of orcs with a low amount of losses. My main goal of the campaign is to reach Moria and to maybe save the Silvan elves and Rohan, I have almost gotten to Moria, but Rohan was failing quickly. So I gave a random settlement to Rohan to save it and it ended up becoming their last settlement. So now taking down Isengard and Reinstating Rohan is going to be my goal after Moria.

My point is, if you have a little role play or set goals the game is a bit more enjoyable.

[Incan]

@shocked
i agree, like with the dwarves recapturing moria there ancient homeland is a crusade that is important to my dwarves, if these "rpg" elements are incorporated more then it could add lots of depth to the game, of course the problem is making them well and not overdoing it

[-shinobi-]

I try to improve it by setting certain goals for myself. As the dwarves I get a sense of satisfaction from slaughtering a large number of orcs with a low amount of losses. My main goal of the campaign is to reach Moria and to maybe save the Silvan elves and Rohan, I have almost gotten to Moria, but Rohan was failing quickly. So I gave a random settlement to Rohan to save it and it ended up becoming their last settlement. So now taking down Isengard and Reinstating Rohan is going to be my goal after Moria.

My point is, if you have a little role play or set goals the game is a bit more enjoyable.

I for one completely agree, we can all make the game more of a challenge if make certain goals. That is the point, this is a GAME, therefore our imagination plays a big part.
As for the starter of the thread, name a game that isn't 'dull' after you figure EVERYTHING out? I also played with High Elves and my goal was to completely destroy 'Evil'...yes, it takes a lot of turns to get to Mordor (or use a boat), to me it brought a sense of realism, like embarking on a huge, epic quest with 'the cream of the crop' of elven forces to destroy evil once and for all. It's all in your head. Try destroying all of the evil factions with f.e. two full stacks, without being able to retrain your forces and then tell me how 'dull' it is.

[Liamar]

I allways set RP goals for myself.
When I play as Silvans, I want to take over fangorn and all foresty regions on the right side of misty mountains. And then I try to help other factions get regions they "deserve".
But no matter what goal is, your own or the games, the road allways looks the same. Battles, battles, battles. Nothing more.

What Total War needs, (not just TA, but TW in general, not just M2 even.) is complex management, complex diplomacy and court intrigues. The battles have to become the climax of long preperations and actions that were performed in alligence to master plan of war. The final scene on stage of art of warfare.
And when the battle is over, resulting in either victory or defeat, player schould be able to gain his loot or try to survive throught dimplomacy. Becoming a vasal, giving away regions to ensure a truce, taking control over deafeted factions armies and resources, conquering them, but not rendering them dead, allowing to rebel against you. etc. Instead of just either mindlesly continuing to fight for ever, or getting wiped out completly.

[Incan]

I allways set RP goals for myself.
When I play as Silvans, I want to take over fangorn and all foresty regions on the right side of misty mountains. And then I try to help other factions get regions they "deserve".
But no matter what goal is, your own or the games, the road allways looks the same. Battles, battles, battles. Nothing more.

What Total War needs, (not just TA, but TW in general, not just M2 even.) is complex management, complex diplomacy and court intrigues. The battles have to become the climax of long preperations and actions that were performed in alligence to master plan of war. The final scene on stage of art of warfare.
And when the battle is over, resulting in either victory or defeat, player schould be able to gain his loot or try to survive throught dimplomacy. Becoming a vasal, giving away regions to ensure a truce, taking control over deafeted factions armies and resources, conquering them, but not rendering them dead, allowing to rebel against you. etc. Instead of just either mindlesly continuing to fight for ever, or getting wiped out completly.

agreed TW needs more depth in ways you mentioned and more, there are so many things the TW series could do. expanded unit veterancy, working diplomacy etc...

[Killerbee]

I don't think this problem is specific to only TATW, and that therefor he shouldn't have created the thread, nor should people have acted as shocked/insulted.

[Liamar]

I don't think this problem is specific to only TATW, and that therefor he shouldn't have created the thread, nor should people have acted as shocked/insulted.

It's not TA specific. Neither is lack of orcs and high elves M2 specific.
This thread may turn out to be the consolidated brain-storm for what this game has not, what it schould have.

[Striker]

I allways set RP goals for myself.
When I play as Silvans, I want to take over fangorn and all foresty regions on the right side of misty mountains. And then I try to help other factions get regions they "deserve".
But no matter what goal is, your own or the games, the road allways looks the same. Battles, battles, battles. Nothing more.

What Total War needs, (not just TA, but TW in general, not just M2 even.) is complex management, complex diplomacy and court intrigues. The battles have to become the climax of long preperations and actions that were performed in alligence to master plan of war. The final scene on stage of art of warfare.
And when the battle is over, resulting in either victory or defeat, player schould be able to gain his loot or try to survive throught dimplomacy. Becoming a vasal, giving away regions to ensure a truce, taking control over deafeted factions armies and resources, conquering them, but not rendering them dead, allowing to rebel against you. etc. Instead of just either mindlesly continuing to fight for ever, or getting wiped out completly.

Agreed, but I don't think it will happen, CA wants an game accessible to everyone, I can see many people turning away from this so desired complexibility (is this a word?)

[Rora Lion]

I agree with Lamar in most points. Total War needs to cross the border of "batle-battle-battle" logic to a more realistic and deeper political and managerial wiew of strategy. Even Army management could have been a lot more immersive if differently cast in the Vanilla game. Don't know if anyone of the felows has ever owned a game slightly older than M2TW called "legion arena", in wich unit experience turned into specifical tactic skills you could teach to each unit.
But most of these drawbacks apply mainly to the vanilla engine rather than TATW, wich already does a lot to solve them (Middle earth is better recreated in TATW than medieval europe in M2TW).

[Vasterion]

It's less what CA want - in the end, there's options already for the AI to be able to take over control of your actions - autobuild/recruit/manage, automated battles, AI controlling troops in battles - so the same could be applied to those - there's no need for something to be dumbed down with the exception of one thing -

Deadlines - EA will set deadlines for short term profits - no caring about long term modding potential - as it removes those companies under them, and their efforts from creating new games etc. It was why Medal of Honour was so poor originally.