Pikemen - Too Squishy ?

[Ruprecht]

Hey all,

Have been playing as Scotland for some time now, and i was always curious as to why Professional Pikemen for Scotland and most other factions have such terrible armor and defense rating.





Looking at the description and unit card picture gives the impression these guys are of Noble professional grade soldiers and have nice shiny Mail-partial Plate, i just thought they should have equivalent too or greater Armor/Defense than Spear militia. Considering militia have almost double the defense of these guys, which are pretty much drafted peasants seems a little odd.


While i find them somewhat useful for dealing with Cavalry intensive armies, i am surprised how easy their numbers drop. It only takes one unit of Cavalry to charge at a slight angle, inconvenient for the Pikemen formation to utterly devastate the Pikemen unit. For this reason they are the only type of soldier i don't bother retraining as their numbers deplete so fast they never accumulate any significant experience.


I was contemplating adjusting their stats slightly in my favor but i don't want to cheapen my game experience. Just trying to justify to myself if these guys are indeed poorly balanced or perhaps perceived in game to be better than they historically were.


Any thoughts ?

[Caesar Clivus]

Defense is low because it is very hard to defend yourself with a pike as opposed to a shorter spear.

[cezarip]

@Caesar Clivus: your argument about defense is sound. However only 4 points for (half) plate armor?

Are they too strong with more than this? Maybe to balance the unit one needs to go with low armor. But then the card is misleading.

[Ruprecht]

Defense is low because it is very hard to defend yourself with a pike as opposed to a shorter spear.

Good point you have there, but still i can't fathom why they have such a pathetically low armor rating. Were they traditionally poorly armored ?

@Caesar Clivus: your argument about defense is sound. However only 4 points for (half) plate armor?

Are they too strong with more than this? Maybe to balance the unit one needs to go with low armor. But then the card is misleading.

Indeed, but you would think a unit specialized to counter Cavalry charges would have Tank style armor to suit such a job, seems logical.

[Lord Minotaur]

nvm!!!!

[Caesar Clivus]

Umm...my version of SS has an armour rating of 11 for Noble Pikemen. What version of SS are you using?

Indeed, but you would think a unit specialized to counter Cavalry charges would have Tank style armor to suit such a job, seems logical.

Not necessarily. The whole point of the pike formation was so that cavalry could never reach you in the first place

[Donjon]

my noble pikemen have total defence of 13 with armor upgrade and i believe its 12 without. and i have version 6.3 with RR/RC if that matters

[Ruprecht]

Umm...my version of SS has an armour rating of 11 for Noble Pikemen. What version of SS are you using?

6.2-RC4, yes i'm still playing the same campaign from the release of 6.2 lol.

Not necessarily. The whole point of the pike formation was so that cavalry could never reach you in the first place

I understand the mechanic trying to be achieved here, still in the event of a some cavalry\Rider or Flying objects inevitably breaching the Pikes (as always tends to happen in game) it would make sense to have suitable protection.

I can only hypothesize with the kind of physics at play here, but 45 Horse + Rider traveling at 50 mph weighing near a tonne each would deliver some chronic inertial impact that would definitely necessitate the need for better protection than your average militia unit.

my noble pikemen have total defence of 13 with armor upgrade and i believe its 12 without. and i have version 6.3 with RR/RC if that matters

Damn thats pretty beefy, so it looks like they buffed Pikies in 6.3. I would like to know if they rebalanced other types of units for compensation ? Would you be able to tell me the rough Total Defense rating of Citadel grade heavy infantry in 6.3 so i can confirm Pikies are poorly balanced in 6.2 comparative to other classes.

[midget_roxx]

I've seen knights lose to ordinary pikemen. Believe me even though the stats are low they are amazing and nothing will get through their pikes

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

While i find them somewhat useful for dealing with Cavalry intensive armies, i am surprised how easy their numbers drop. It only takes one unit of Cavalry to charge at a slight angle, inconvenient for the Pikemen formation to utterly devastate the Pikemen unit. For this reason they are the only type of soldier i don't bother retraining as their numbers deplete so fast they never accumulate any significant experience.

Successful execution of the spear wall* can be extremely tricky and at times require en depth micromanagement. The flanks of the wall must be protected by "support" units and when the wall begins to crack, support units {AP, and heavy sword are my recommendations} must support the integrity of the wall.{jump into the breech}.

In My experience playing Scotland in SS6.1 I believe... I didn't even need the nobles to plow the rest of Europe underfoot. Actually the regular pike militia in concert with the Highland Nobles, tore a bloody swath thru everything in their path...

+RepIOU to the OP for the thread. Thank you... {great topic...yo.}

* think back to the times of Alexander.....{RTW for-the-win}

[k/t]

You're playing a weird version, that's why the armour of those guys is so low for you. Their stats in the latest RR/RC are 4/4, 11/1/0, with 3 possible armour upgrades. They also cost 800 per turn.

Cavalry wouldn't have charged at 80 km/h. 30-40 is more like it.

[Polydamas]

Pikes are scary IRL, they cut through armor like butter compared to spears or swords. O_o

[Rhavanna]

Pikes are scary IRL, they cut through armor like butter compared to spears or swords. O_o

The range and flexibility is huge too. I do a lot of larping, and it is seriously hard to get close to someone who knows how to wield a pike. Even with sword and board, getting past that spear tip is really tricky, and often fatal. I can't imagine what a wall of 90 pikes would look like. One is scary enough!