Is Islamophobia justified?

[Tom Crooze]

Recently, there has been a lot of hate going on against Islam. And people are trying to justify it, but is it just?
I personally think it's completely unjust. People claiming that most Muslims support the Jihad, and that they're forcing there ways upon us. Honestly, it's all bull . I mean, Christians probably do more to force they're beliefs than Muslims. Do Muslim missionaries come to your door? Do you turn on the TV and see Muslim preachers telling you your a sinner? No, you don't.

And people with the whole "Most Muslims are terrorists" belief, it has been debunked by studies. Only about 10% of Muslims in the US support what the Taliban are doing. But some people try to justify it by saying things like "You can never be to sure in war time." Well, people thought that way During WWII about the Japanese in the US. Some people in the government thought they were all agents of the Empire, so they locked them all up in Internment camps, and when the war was over, they realized that it was a little extreme lumping them together as the enemy. And that's what's happening now. If the Islamophobes got their way, then we'd have Islamic interment camps, and there would be discrimination.

But what do you think?

[Ciabhán]

Recently, there has been a lot of hate going on against Islam. And people are trying to justify it, but is it just?
I personally think it's completely unjust. People claiming that most Muslims support the Jihad, and that they're forcing there ways upon us. Honestly, it's all bull . I mean, Christians probably do more to force they're beliefs than Muslims. Do Muslim missionaries come to your door? Do you turn on the TV and see Muslim preachers telling you your a sinner? No, you don't.

And people with the whole "Most Muslims are terrorists" belief, it has been debunked by studies. Only about 10% of Muslims in the US support what the Taliban are doing. But some people try to justify it by saying things like "You can never be to sure in war time." Well, people thought that way During WWII about the Japanese in the US. Some people in the government thought they were all agents of the Empire, so they locked them all up in Internment camps, and when the war was over, they realized that it was a little extreme lumping them together as the enemy. And that's what's happening now. If the Islamophobes got their way, then we'd have Islamic interment camps, and there would be discrimination.

But what do you think?

As with any other religion or belief system that inspires folks the only ones who are a problem are the extremists. Holding all Muslims responsible for the actions of some is illogical.

[SigniferOne]

No one holds all Muslims responsible for the actions of the few. The only thing that a reasonable person would say is that there are vastly more extremists in the Islamic radical minority than there are anywhere else. So if you see a Muslim, especially conservative, it is MUCH more likely that he holds radical views than if you see a Sikh.

[Ciabhán]

No one holds all Muslims responsible for the actions of the few. The only thing that a reasonable person would say is that there are vastly more extremists in the Islamic radical minority than there are anywhere else. So if you see a Muslim, especially conservative, it is MUCH more likely that he holds radical views than if you see a Sikh.

This I agree with. Islam does tend to have a relatively large percentage of extremists. The fact that it is a relatively young and insular(in terms of the cultures and ethnicities that make up most of it's people) religion gives it some excuse for that percentage. I'm not defending Islam but I can't be talked into believing that it's any worse than other religions with similar circumstances.

However far too many people act as if every Muslim they see happen to be extremists. I've worked side by side with Muslim military personnel in many countries and the average lad is no different than me.

[Burnum]

No one holds all Muslims responsible for the actions of the few. The only thing that a reasonable person would say is that there are vastly more extremists in the Islamic radical minority than there are anywhere else. So if you see a Muslim, especially conservative, it is MUCH more likely that he holds radical views than if you see a Sikh.

Prove it.

[Ciabhán]

Prove it.

When's the last time Sikhs flew an airliner into a building? Islam has a relatively large group of extremists. It isn't so much Islam that causes it however. It's the excuse of religion mixed with insular societies and the impression of oppression.

Before you go trying to say I don't know what I'm about: I'm the son of a PIRA member and grew up among terrorists(or freedom fighters if you want to go that route).

[motiv-8]

And people with the whole "Most Muslims are terrorists" belief, it has been debunked by studies. Only about 10% of Muslims in the US support what the Taliban are doing.

1. Citation needed
2. There's a larger, grander meta argument to be had here. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that 10% of American Muslims do indeed support what the Taliban are doing. Why? Because they're Muslim? Because they're resisting a foreign occupation? Because they're standing up for their beliefs regardless of what they are? There's a whole plethora of explanations here that aren't explored by a generic statistics but are brought up in antagonistic arguments all the time.

But some people try to justify it by saying things like "You can never be to sure in war time." Well, people thought that way During WWII about the Japanese in the US. Some people in the government thought they were all agents of the Empire, so they locked them all up in Internment camps, and when the war was over, they realized that it was a little extreme lumping them together as the enemy. And that's what's happening now. If the Islamophobes got their way, then we'd have Islamic interment camps, and there would be discrimination.

Yes, in fact Michelle Malkin, who's part of the right-wing anti-Islamic circle that includes Ann Coulter, Pamela Gellar, Robert Spencer, David Horowitz, et al, has already been quoted calling for the internment of Arab Americans.

But what do you think?

I think... they can think whatever they want to think. Doesn't make it any less stupid.

So if you see a Muslim, especially conservative, it is MUCH more likely that he holds radical views than if you see a Sikh.

And why is this, Sig? Since you've already been caught several times making generalized arguments against Islam and Muslims based on this admitted minority. I suppose you could have moderated your outlook but I must be skeptical.

[SigniferOne]

And why is this, Sig? Since you've already been caught several times making generalized arguments against Islam and Muslims based on this admitted minority. I suppose you could have moderated your outlook but I must be skeptical.

I explained it earlier in the thread: "there are vastly more extremists in the Islamic radical minority than there are anywhere else".

I expresed my views clumsily in previous times; the reason one is tempted to blame all of Islam is because it is more likely to find crazy radicals among Muslims, the more "Muslim" they are; but this doesn't change the fact of them nominally being a minority, and so a careful delineation has to be done here to get one's point across without making blunt claims that easily get you nailed by the apologists.

[motiv-8]

I explained it earlier in the thread: "there are vastly more extremists in the Islamic radical minority than there are anywhere else".

Why?

I expresed my views clumsily in previous times; the reason one is tempted to blame all of Islam is because it is more likely to find crazy radicals among Muslims, the more "Muslim" they are; but this doesn't change the fact of them nominally being a minority, and so a careful delineation has to be done here to get one's point across without making blunt claims that easily get you nailed by the apologists.

Apologists? Could you be more elaborate? Sounds here that your advice is "don't be too obvious when you're making your bigoted remark."

[jankren]

Islam is a dangerous religion.

But most Muslims are just normal human beings.

[B5C]

Any type of (anti religious) phobia is wrong.

[ArkocentoArisen]

Religion Religion...No matter which religion you are i their is Bound to Be an Extremist here or there....
I dont think Islam is the Only Religion to have mad men or Women in it.....
But that does not mean people cannot Panic at the Fact they had Been attacked....
Was it Justified here on 9/11 to despise Islam? Yes. is still Justifiable? Not at all....I mean Im an American
and i Love japan But had i Been at Pearl Harbor do you think i would look at them in as Awesome Game Designers or as MadMen Assualting us Cruely and Unjustly?

[enoch]

islamic states, whether religious or secular, especially religious, aren't the nicest places

[The Dude]

I personally think it's completely unjust.

Alright, so let's start with that.

Please explain why you think that Islam is just another of the world's religions and deserves the same amount of respect?

[Tom Crooze]

Alright, so let's start with that.

Please explain why you think that Islam is just another of the world's religions and deserves the same amount of respect?

Because, well, it is. It's the second largest religion in the world, not just some idiotic cult. It's existed for more than 1000 years. And most nations grant freedom to worship you own faith. So, that's why.

[The Dude]

Because, well, it is. It's the second largest religion in the world, not just some idiotic cult. It's existed for more than 1000 years. And most nations grant freedom to worship you own faith. So, that's why.

Alright so for the sake of consistency let's argue that if we were to have this discussion in the year 3600 and scientology was still around and widely practiced, it would deserve the same amount of respect that contemporary christianity and islam enjoy?

See I understand your thinking and it seems plausible at first, but the true question is this: is a belief valid simply because it is believed by many for a long time, or are we still allowed to question its validity regardless of how long it's been around and how widely this belief is held?

[SigniferOne]

Why?

Increasing de_civilization and radicalism of many Muslims during the last 60 years.

Apologists? Could you be more elaborate? Sounds here that your advice is "don't be too obvious when you're making your bigoted remark."

Nope, it is to be careful in your formulations, so that your valid remarks will not be able to be accused as bigotry. If I say that Muslims attacked us on 9/11, versus radical Muslims attacking us on 9/11, what a miniscule real difference but you will get nailed to the floor for saying the first one, as if a "radical Muslim" is some special separate type of human being, by the overzealous PC apologist types.

Prove it.

You're kidding me right? I could in a few minutes pull out a dozen Islamic terrorist attacks on America within just the last year alone. 9/11 is peanuts compared to how many terrorist attacks radical Muslims have tried to pull off since then.

[motiv-8]

Increasing de_civilization and radicalism of many Muslims during the last 60 years.

And why is this?

Nope, it is to be careful in your formulations, so that your valid remarks will not be able to be accused as bigotry. If I say that Muslims attacked us on 9/11, versus radical Muslims attacking us on 9/11, what a miniscule real difference but you will get nailed to the floor for saying the first one, as if a "radical Muslim" is some special separate type of human being, by the overzealous PC apologist types.

The difference is not miniscule, at all. It's the difference between saying "they attacked us because they were Muslims" and "they attacked us because they hated our foreign policy and our actions abroad." It's not a matter of PC, it's a matter of factual accuracy and throwing out the PC card as a smokescreen for one's bigotry is never a a tenable intellectual position.

You're kidding me right? I could in a few minutes pull out a dozen Islamic terrorist attacks on America within just the last year alone. 9/11 is peanuts compared to how many terrorist attacks radical Muslims have tried to pull off since then.

That is interesting indeed because mongrel has already run the numbers and like he said, all terrorist attacks are Muslim except for the ~90% that aren't.

Prejudice would require that I was already opposed to Islam before I actually knew anything about it.

What if I were to tell you the opposite, that I was once actually a very big friend of Islam until I started learning more about it?

Because that's what's been the case for me.

You should probably get to the part where you show something because you've been harping a long time and never so much as demonstrated a basic grasp on the religion's classical theology much less its contemporary role in societies and politics.

[Papay]

Alright so for the sake of consistency let's argue that if we were to have this discussion in the year 3600 and scientology was still around and widely practiced, it would deserve the same amount of respect that contemporary christianity and islam enjoy?

See I understand your thinking and it seems plausible at first, but the true question is this: is a belief valid simply because it is believed by many for a long time, or are we still allowed to question its validity regardless of how long it's been around and how widely this belief is held?

If you you dont like Islam then dont become a Muslim.Simple as that.But you must respect the personal belief of someone else whether he is a Muslim or a Jew or whatever

[The Dude]

But you must respect the personal belief of someone else whether he is a Muslim or a Jew or whatever

I must? Why?