i need a change from catholic factions

[The Source]

okay so i decided to take a change from my most loved factions-france and spain
so i im open for recomendations, first off i would like to say that im not a fan of horse archers, javlins are ok, BUT NOT HORSE ARCHERS,

ok so i decided to look at lithuania and russia but i heard they are all about horse achers so no
byzantine-again dont like the horse achers but the greek flamethrower and the hev infrantry looks appealing.
egypt-i heard that theyre into both types of horses so its a maybe
turks-dont know anything about them but i hate the seperation and mountain crossing between thier settlments.
moors-ok, im intrested in the christian guard and thier spears.

so plz tell me cons n pros, recomendations and what the non catholic factions are all about

[Darkan]

I would recommend the moorish faction. Your main battlegrounds will be in the Iberian peninsula and you will have a more or less easy time in strangthening your afrfican provinces and conquering new ones. (if you don´t get bored of the long distances through the desert between sttlements that is). I don´t know if you use priests a lot (I don´t when playing catholics but they are quite needed by the muslims) but as the moors you will have to use them, send them throughout Spain and Portugal to convert (the more, the better). Who knows, maybe you could even write an AAR? Good luck to you, whatever you choose.

[The Source]

hmmmmmm i would think about it
btw im a fairly big user of priests mainly to control the cardinals or to cause unrest

[Lennert]

I would still recommend Russia. They don't have to be about horse archers if you don't want to and it's definitely a unique experience playing as them. You can pretty much go all directions as far as their unit roster go's. Problem is that you will have to rely on cavalry early on. But you should be fine just using Druzhina and Boyar son's (jav's). Later on you can go for Dismounted Dvor and all of your problems will vanish Plus you can build cavalry armies from the super heavy Tsar's Guard and Boyar Son's you've been training and upgrading all game long. A 9 exp unit of boyar son's can easily kill a unit of elephants, maybe even two.. (still I predict that once you've recruited a couple of Dvor Cavalry you'll begin to love them as much as I do)

And I think it would be fun for you to start on the other far end of the map for once

[MJDreamWalker13]

My favourite factions are France and Spain as well. So, due their starting position I chose the Moors.
It got really boring though after a while due to knowing my neighbours and the area too well. I mean, how many campaigns can one have in the Iberia?

Go with Egypt. Its cities are in fairly close proximity, crusades will provide you with constant thrill and the unit roster is ok.
The only annoyance are the heretics, but playing as France you probably got used to that.

[HanatielHawk]

Play as a catholic faction and ignore the pope's messages is also an option (: Change the descr_strat so you could make for example France a muslim faction

[Monsieur Alphonse]

Then play as the Turks and simply don't recruit HA's. The Turks have an excellent infantry roster: Janissary heavy infantry, archers, musketeers. They lack units with swords but JHI's rule.

[Leaf-Fan-Forever]

Then play as the Turks and simply don't recruit HA's. The Turks have an excellent infantry roster: Janissary heavy infantry, archers, musketeers. They lack units with swords but JHI's rule.

How do you use JHI? I've never been able to use them effectively

[Monsieur Alphonse]

How do you use JHI? I've never been able to use them effectively

They are vulnerable against archers but they rule in mêlée. Use some spearmen to absorb the cavalry or infantry charge and then counter attack with JHI's. My standard Turkish army consists of one general, six JHI's, six spearmen, some archers and some heavy cavalry. Use your JHI's as reserve force like Napoleon's Imperial Guard.

[Leaf-Fan-Forever]

They are vulnerable against archers but they rule in mêlée. Use some spearmen to absorb the cavalry or infantry charge and then counter attack with JHI's. My standard Turkish army consists of one general, six JHI's, six spearmen, some archers and some heavy cavalry. Use your JHI's as reserve force like Napoleon's Imperial Guard.

I just tested them in custom battle, and they didn't lose once (against infantry), but they get demolished by Western Knights, so they definately need spearmen in support.

[FiatLux]

I'm also not a huge fan of horse archers, but do like playing as the Byzantines. While one of their strengths is excellent horse archers, the rest of their roster is strong enough that you could play without having to use horse archers extensively. It's also fun to have variety in your enemies, from the lighter and more mobile middle eastern factions, to the heavy infantry and cavalry of western European factions.

Most (but obviously not all) of the non-Catholic factions are geared more towards lighter and more mobile forces in any case. If you do decide to play a campaign as the Byzantines, I would recommend using the Retrofit Mod so that you can take advantage of the units they were given in Kingdoms.

[tudor93]

Yes, Byzantium just rullz

[shikaka]

so i im open for recomendations, first off i would like to say that im not a fan of horse archers, javlins are ok, BUT NOT HORSE ARCHERS,

Why the hate? Just curious!

ok so i decided to look at lithuania and russia but i heard they are all about horse achers so no
byzantine-again dont like the horse achers but the greek flamethrower and the hev infrantry looks appealing.
egypt-i heard that theyre into both types of horses so its a maybe
turks-dont know anything about them but i hate the seperation and mountain crossing between thier settlments.
moors-ok, im intrested in the christian guard and thier spears.

so plz tell me cons n pros, recomendations and what the non catholic factions are all about

Which mod are you playing?

Why I ask is that Lithuania is not a HA faction in mods involving MadTao's wonderful lithuanian units. (for example Baltic-Total war or Magyar mod)


What I recommend is the Moors. Once you can train christian guard they can be played like a catholic.

[Czin]

okay so i decided to take a change from my most loved factions-france and spain
so i im open for recomendations, first off i would like to say that im not a fan of horse archers, javlins are ok, BUT NOT HORSE ARCHERS,

ok so i decided to look at lithuania and russia but i heard they are all about horse achers so no
byzantine-again dont like the horse achers but the greek flamethrower and the hev infrantry looks appealing.
egypt-i heard that theyre into both types of horses so its a maybe
turks-dont know anything about them but i hate the seperation and mountain crossing between thier settlments.
moors-ok, im intrested in the christian guard and thier spears.

so plz tell me cons n pros, recomendations and what the non catholic factions are all about

Russia isn't so much about horse archers as it is about the late-game. In the Early Game Russia is terrible, in the mid-game it's average at best, but by the End-game it is a virtually unstoppable juggernaut capable of churning out some of the best units in every category.

The Dvor's are easily one of the best horse archers to be sure, but the Tsar's guards are also easily some of the best heavy cavalry in the game, Cossack Musketeers are the second best gunpowder infantry in the game in terms of quality, only being beat out by the Janissary musketeers and I think the Cossacks are cheaper by a good margin, Dismounted Dvors in my experience are only outclassed as foot archers by English longbowmen, and Berdiche Axemen will more or less butcher any other melee infantry unit with hardly any trouble.

And of course let's not forget that Russia also has access to virtually all the gunpowder artillery in the games and by the late-game, the ships that they can place into their navy are nothing to sneeze at (though they remain outclassed by the Grand Carracks, most of the nations that can build those are on the other end of Europe). Lithuania on the other hand, I remembered being about cavalry and their gimmicky temple units.

The only other faction with a late-game comparable to Russia's is France. (Mainly because the overwhelming majority of the weapons in the game do bugger all to Lancers who probably have three inch thick armor or something like that.)

The Byzantine empire plays like the opposite of Russia, their time of glory is in the early to mid game and are sorely lacking in gunpowder units (they have none at all in vanilla, and they only get Hand Gunners in stainless steel, and Hand Gunners suck badly).

Russia's main problem will be the Mongols who could do some serious harm to them before they can reach the late-game, but if you're lucky the mongols may attack the Middle east and leave you alone. The other problem Russia faces it that it takes a long time to get anywhere, a predicament which they share with the Moors (well, the Moorish provinces in Africa any way).

I don't have much experience with the muslim powers so I can't give you advice there.

[FootSoldier]

Hmm ... I've used JHI against everything, and they've always won. I love Turkey - my favourite stack would be 6 JHI, 6 Sipahis, 2 Qapukulu (heavy cavalry), and in late game Janissary Musketeers. Usually, I guess, I've demolished the catholic heavy cavalry with sipahis and muskets.

But then, I love HA armies. I got used to them in RTW playing the Parthians. I still fondly remember the time when Dardoshi the Horseman demolished 4 complete stacks of Roman legionnaires coming from Leptis Magnus towards Alexandria in a single turn with a single stack of Persian Cavalry (HA's). The Parthians lost about 100 men in the 4 battles.

I do understand how anyone used to having a heavy infantry core gets lost with HA armies, but really, they're a joy.

You could play Turkey as an infantry faction, in which case you'd also want to use Ottoman Infantry a lot. First arrows, then charge in with the hand-to-hand. Their stats are similar to Mongol Warriors, and miles better than Mongol Foot Archers. With them, and JHI and Saracen Militia you'd be able to take most catholic stacks as infantry. Their heavy cavalry is good, better than Feudal Knights, but it's a long build to King's Stables to get them. But, you'd missing their big strength, especially early, where you can run rings around the Byz foot infantry with HA armies. Byz foot is better than Turkish foot at the start, and that's what they use.

The big downer with the Turks is the likelihood of having to deal with the Mongol invasion, and then the Timurid invasion, at least in my game. Both came through Yerevan/Baghdad. You can stop them settling and knock them out, but it takes a long time.

Troy7 - why don't you like HA armies? They are the game alternative to the catholic heavy infantry/heavy cavalry set ups. Is it that you didn't get the hang of them? They're actually pretty easy to use when you get used to them - used to not having the heavy infantry core ... and you can get that with JHI for the late battle game.

[Czin]

For me, infantry of any kind have never been more than secondary units. If even that, they're simply too gosh darned slow for my tastes, no for me Cavalry is the end all unit and infantry are nothing more than a fallback or support. The only thing that stops me in M2TW with cavalry is that damned stop in the middle of a charge bug. To me, infantry centric armies are something of an anathema and I can't really comprehend how anyone really gets the hang of them as an offensive weapon.

[Tears of Destiny]

To me, infantry centric armies are something of an anathema and I can't really comprehend how anyone really gets the hang of them as an offensive weapon.

Practice, and a willingness to adapt instantly to recieve cavalry threats (And the brains and experience to make a balanced army).
Enemy horse archers are not a threat due to infantry archers simply throwing out twice the shots, and being smaller targets. One on One, horse archers are eaten by a ground archer equivalent.
Heavy Infantry to provide the backbone of your forces, and a select few companies of specialists to deal with nuts and cavalry (Such as Javelin throwers to general hunt any GB/heavy cav stupid enough to charge close, and AP two handers to smash against cavalry and infantry who have already charged the expendable troops).
The main advantage is lower upkeep, so your infantry armies will grossly outnumber the enemy.

In Stainless Steel 6.3 the best faction for being Infantry centric is England and The Roman Empire in my opinion.

[Czin]

Practice, and a willingness to adapt instantly to recieve cavalry threats (And the brains and experience to make a balanced army).
Enemy horse archers are not a threat due to infantry archers simply throwing out twice the shots, and being smaller targets. One on One, horse archers are eaten by a ground archer equivalent.
Heavy Infantry to provide the backbone of your forces, and a select few companies of specialists to deal with nuts and cavalry (Such as Javelin throwers to general hunt any GB/heavy cav stupid enough to charge close, and AP two handers to smash against cavalry and infantry who have already charged the expendable troops).
The main advantage is lower upkeep, so your infantry armies will grossly outnumber the enemy.

In Stainless Steel 6.3 the best faction for being Infantry centric is England and The Roman Empire in my opinion.

Me? I just use meelee infantry to hold enemy infantry in place to set them up for a charge from the rear if I use them at all, ranged infantry are likewise relegated to support roles.

[Double A]

Me? I just use meelee infantry to hold enemy infantry in place to set them up for a charge from the rear if I use them at all, ranged infantry are likewise relegated to support roles.

Double A is sad.

Archers are ing amazing in battles, especially on hills or firing from behind the enemy. Quite a few times I have stuck some archers and spearmen in some trees with autofire off, and once the enemy has passed them buy, I open fire, killing hundreds. This is also about the only decent way to kill heavy cavalry when your only spearmen are militiamen, assuming the arrows/bolts are AP. Still works pretty well with Tier IIs, though, since firing into their backs negates their shield bonus.

[Tears of Destiny]

Me? I just use meelee infantry to hold enemy infantry in place to set them up for a charge from the rear if I use them at all, ranged infantry are likewise relegated to support roles.

Yes, but that does not answer your question, nor is it infantry-centric