Small factions fielding stacks and stacks

[Gigan]

Does anyone else have this problem? Small factions in this game get like 10 stacks, wtf?

[Tomato_Sandwich]

Its because the ai get given a shed load of money when they go bankrupt or get down to their last region. Its too help small factions survive against big factions and reasons like that. I dont like it personally but I can see why it might be necessary.

[Tears of Destiny]

Its because the ai get given a shed load of money when they go bankrupt or get down to their last region. Its too help small factions survive against big factions and reasons like that. I dont like it personally but I can see why it might be necessary.

This.

AI has a substantially larger Kings Purse then you on the higher difficulties, so this already gives them a significant bonus for armies, not even counting the others.

[Amaranth]

Its because the ai get given a shed load of money when they go bankrupt or get down to their last region. Its too help small factions survive against big factions and reasons like that. I dont like it personally but I can see why it might be necessary.

Exactly. If you take control of an AI faction in hotseat with 1 or 2 settlements left (with stacks of armies) you can see that they're swimming in florins. However if you keep the faction in your control for a couple of turns, it will slowly go back to normal.

I actually like it because it gives those factions a chance show some resistance before they go down, otherwise it would be too simple wipe faction out.

[Rhavanna]

The AI also seem to not be restricted by the RR/RC stuffs. I'll be struggling to put together professional armies off of like 5-6 citadels, and the enemy is just pumping out legions of elite troops off of one or two, T_T;

[Meneth]

The AI is restricted by RR. If they seem to be pumping out more than RR would allow, then either you're not accounting for some buildings/settlements, or they had those troops earlier.

[Gharbad the Weak]

The AI is restricted by RR. If they seem to be pumping out more than RR would allow, then either you're not accounting for some buildings/settlements, or they had those troops earlier.

Are you sure? How is it possible for the 1 city states to field full stacks if that's the case?

[Tears of Destiny]

Are you sure? How is it possible for the 1 city states to field full stacks if that's the case?

Mercenaries, and recruiting everything faster by emptying pools due to not caring about money.
Also, there are scripts which give free troops (And a general sometimes as well) that can sometimes fire when certain conditions are met.

[bɑne]

Also, there are scripts which give free troops (And a general sometimes as well) that can sometimes fire when certain conditions are met.

Afaik those are either only firing at campaign start or to save a faction from premature extinction due to the family tree dying off. This of course excludes emergent factions

[Tears of Destiny]

Afaik those are either only firing at campaign start or to save a faction from premature extinction due to the family tree dying off. This of course excludes emergent factions

Yes indeed, and I had great joy buffing factions by repeatedly assassinating generals to force spawns.
Never had I seen a hotseat game go so wrong so fast.

[Gorrrrrn]

Mercenaries, and recruiting everything faster by emptying pools due to not caring about money.
Also, there are scripts which give free troops (And a general sometimes as well) that can sometimes fire when certain conditions are met.

I'd query the bit about mercenaries being a cause of mega stacks.
from running hotseats for 300 turns it looks like the AI normally only recruits mercs when on crusade or jihad - it will often ignore them even if they are available. (that'sa mercs outside of barracks, not mercs recruitable in barracks as AoR) (And a destroy_units script like the RozMods have can mop up some of those once a crusade or jihad is finished.)

as for the mega stacks - part problem is the replenishment rate and recruitment pools - if they are designed to pump out troops every turn them small factions can get a lot of units very quickly.

but because the campaign AI makes tiny factions reluctant to take on much bigger neighbours, then those units can just pile up.

[pluckcitizen]

Yes I have this problem too.

If left unchecked, the AI armies will keep growing and growing, even if they only own a single province!

[Tears of Destiny]

In practice it is a few thousand more gold they will earn due to the increased King's Purse.
Armies should not get too large as of this, though they will still have several stacks.

EDIT: Easy ranges from 400-700 bonus (Discounting papal 200 and rebel 1500), Normal is 600-1000 (Discounting Papal 300 and Rebel 2700), Hard is 900-1900 (400 and 2000 for papal & rebels, and no that it not a typo it really is less for rebels on hard then normal, figure that out), and Very Hard is 1450-3000 (400/3500 for the oddballs mentioned previously).

Only people that do not play fair are the Mongols as they regularly slip below into the negatives (Though other factions have similar bail outs, the Mongols do it all the time).

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

monitor_event PreFactionTurnStart FactionType mongols
and Treasury < 100
and Treasury > -1001
and not FactionIsLocal

add_money mongols 1100
end_monitor

monitor_event PreFactionTurnStart FactionType mongols
and Treasury < -1000
and Treasury > -3501
and not FactionIsLocal

add_money mongols 3600
end_monitor

monitor_event PreFactionTurnStart FactionType mongols
and Treasury < -3500
and Treasury > -10001
and not FactionIsLocal

add_money mongols 10100
set_event_counter freeze_recr_pool 1
end_monitor

monitor_event PreFactionTurnStart FactionType mongols
and Treasury < -10000
and Treasury > -20001
and not FactionIsLocal

add_money mongols 20100
set_event_counter freeze_recr_pool 1
end_monitor

monitor_event PreFactionTurnStart FactionType mongols
and Treasury < -20000
and Treasury > -40001
and not FactionIsLocal

add_money mongols 40000
set_event_counter freeze_recr_pool 1
end_monitor

monitor_event PreFactionTurnStart FactionType mongols
and Treasury < -40001
and Treasury > -60000
and not FactionIsLocal

add_money mongols 40000
add_money mongols 20100
set_event_counter freeze_recr_pool 1
end_monitor

monitor_event PreFactionTurnStart FactionType mongols
and Treasury < -60001
and Treasury > -100000
and not FactionIsLocal

add_money mongols 40000
add_money mongols 40000
add_money mongols 20100
set_event_counter freeze_recr_pool 1
end_monitor

monitor_event PreFactionTurnStart FactionType mongols
and Treasury < 3000
and I_LosingMoney mongols
and I_NumberOfSettlements mongols < 11
and I_NumberOfSettlements mongols > 2
and not FactionIsLocal

set_event_counter freeze_recr_pool 1
end_monitor

monitor_event PreFactionTurnStart FactionType mongols
and I_NumberOfSettlements mongols > 10
and I_LosingMoney mongols
and Treasury < 10000
and I_NumberOfSettlements mongols < 21
and not FactionIsLocal

set_event_counter freeze_recr_pool 1
end_monitor

[Fred Putz]

Just had a short look at the 6.3 script - till now. If i read it right the recruitment is frozen if (to keep it short) the AI has less than -3500 florins or more than 2 settlements. So if a Nation has 1 or 2 settlements it´s like giving them another 2600 kings purse (up to - rounded ). That would explain those extra stacks. If the freeze_recr_pool would be added to the first two monitors the AI couldn´t recruit more units if they have less than 100 treasury and wouldn´t have the "permanent extra purse".

[Gorrrrrn]

I amended the script thus:

monitor_event PreFactionTurnStart FactionType kievan_rus
and not FactionIsLocal
and Treasury < -1000
and Treasury > -3501

add_money kievan_rus 3600
set_event_counter freeze_recr_pool 1
end_monitor

for each faction, but left the -1000 one thinking if the faction was seriously going bust it would get caught next turn anyway.

mind you I've also removed the faction income caps, so they can go through the ceiling that the existing script uses.
means some factions build up quite a reserve of cash (esp small factions) so they can keep recruiting longer.
(but also keep building structures - also improves their diplomatic capability - more money = more bribes.)

if nothing else it should keep them in the game longer.

[Fred Putz]

Just thought over the script again. Couldn´t You save one line in each monitor if You order them backwards? Highest negative treasury first down to the positive one? I mean:

1. monitor
and Treasury < 100
and Treasury > -1001
2.monitor
and Treasury < -1000
and Treasury > -3501
3.Monitor
and Treasury < -3500
and Treasury > -10001

has the same effect like:

1.monitor
and Treasury < -3500
2.monitor
and Treasury < -1000
3.monitor
and Treasury < 100

or am I wrong?

[Gorrrrrn]

FP - I expect there will be a much revised script in next version of SS.

took me a while to work out what the current SS6.3 was trying to do.
may well be better ways of ordering the script

i'm not too sure about the settlement number business either - why between 10 and 21 but nothing beyond that etc.

[Fred Putz]

FP - I expect there will be a much revised script in next version of SS.

Gracul said something about it in the RR/RC update thread. I think that will be the next step to perfection.

i'm not too sure about the settlement number business either - why between 10 and 21 but nothing beyond that etc.

I think i understand the idea behind that - first i thought the only problems for AI economy are settlement related too. But i don´t know if those two Monitors above have a big influence on the AI. I guess the AI would do the same without those. Perhaps it´s meant to make those 1-2 settlement nations stronger?

In a very early version of carl i had a settlement part too. It adds to the kings purse if the AI looses settlements. But as i realized that this is not the only problem i left it out as the script is already long enough. It´s tested and works.

I have no need for it so here it is for the interested. I left out the part where the kings_purse is taken away with the (here) third counter. There are two checks (turnstart e.g. if they lost to attackers and turnend e.g. if they lost the excursion) - perhaps one would be enough (script would be half as long, but there are only 4 monitors and max. one if-condition needed in each anyway) Counting just up to seven settlements, because nations should have a strong enough economy with more.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

declare_counter SettlementsHoldBy_kwarezm_Start
declare_counter SettlementsHoldBy_kwarezm_End

monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType kwarezm
    and not FactionIsLocal
        if I_NumberOfSettlements kwarezm = 1
    set_counter SettlementsHoldBy_kwarezm_Start 1
    end_if
        if I_NumberOfSettlements kwarezm = 2
    set_counter SettlementsHoldBy_kwarezm_Start 2
    end_if
        if I_NumberOfSettlements kwarezm = 3
    set_counter SettlementsHoldBy_kwarezm_Start 3
    end_if
        if I_NumberOfSettlements kwarezm = 4
    set_counter SettlementsHoldBy_kwarezm_Start 4
    end_if
        if I_NumberOfSettlements kwarezm = 5
    set_counter SettlementsHoldBy_kwarezm_Start 5
    end_if
        if I_NumberOfSettlements kwarezm = 6
    set_counter SettlementsHoldBy_kwarezm_Start 6
    end_if
        if I_NumberOfSettlements kwarezm >= 7
    set_counter SettlementsHoldBy_kwarezm_Start 7
    end_if
end_monitor

monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType kwarezm
    and not FactionIsLocal
        if I_CompareCounter SettlementsHoldBy_kwarezm_Start = 1
        and I_CompareCounter SettlementsHoldBy_kwarezm_End > 1
        and I_LosingMoney kwarezm
    increment_kings_purse kwarezm 5000
    end_if
        if I_CompareCounter SettlementsHoldBy_kwarezm_Start = 2
        and I_CompareCounter SettlementsHoldBy_kwarezm_End > 2
        and I_LosingMoney kwarezm
    increment_kings_purse kwarezm 4000
    end_if
        if I_CompareCounter SettlementsHoldBy_kwarezm_Start = 3
        and I_CompareCounter SettlementsHoldBy_kwarezm_End > 3
        and I_LosingMoney kwarezm
    increment_kings_purse kwarezm 4000
    end_if
        if I_CompareCounter SettlementsHoldBy_kwarezm_Start = 4
        and I_CompareCounter SettlementsHoldBy_kwarezm_End > 4
        and I_LosingMoney kwarezm
    increment_kings_purse kwarezm 3000
    end_if
        if I_CompareCounter SettlementsHoldBy_kwarezm_Start = 5
        and I_CompareCounter SettlementsHoldBy_kwarezm_End > 5
        and I_LosingMoney kwarezm
    increment_kings_purse kwarezm 3000
    end_if
        if I_CompareCounter SettlementsHoldBy_kwarezm_Start = 6
        and I_CompareCounter SettlementsHoldBy_kwarezm_End > 6
        and I_LosingMoney kwarezm
    increment_kings_purse kwarezm 2000
    end_if
end_monitor

monitor_event FactionTurnEnd FactionType kwarezm
    and not FactionIsLocal
        if I_NumberOfSettlements kwarezm = 1
    set_counter SettlementsHoldBy_kwarezm_End 1
    end_if
        if I_NumberOfSettlements kwarezm = 2
    set_counter SettlementsHoldBy_kwarezm_End 2
    end_if
        if I_NumberOfSettlements kwarezm = 3
    set_counter SettlementsHoldBy_kwarezm_End 3
    end_if
        if I_NumberOfSettlements kwarezm = 4
    set_counter SettlementsHoldBy_kwarezm_End 4
    end_if
        if I_NumberOfSettlements kwarezm = 5
    set_counter SettlementsHoldBy_kwarezm_End 5
    end_if
        if I_NumberOfSettlements kwarezm = 6
    set_counter SettlementsHoldBy_kwarezm_End 6
    end_if
        if I_NumberOfSettlements kwarezm >= 7
    set_counter SettlementsHoldBy_kwarezm_End 7
    end_if
end_monitor

monitor_event FactionTurnEnd FactionType kwarezm
    and not FactionIsLocal
        if I_CompareCounter SettlementsHoldBy_kwarezm_End = 1
        and I_CompareCounter SettlementsHoldBy_kwarezm_Start > 1
    increment_kings_purse kwarezm 5000
    end_if
        if I_CompareCounter SettlementsHoldBy_kwarezm_End = 2
        and I_CompareCounter SettlementsHoldBy_kwarezm_Start > 2
    increment_kings_purse kwarezm 4000
    end_if
        if I_CompareCounter SettlementsHoldBy_kwarezm_End = 3
        and I_CompareCounter SettlementsHoldBy_kwarezm_Start > 3
    increment_kings_purse kwarezm 4000
    end_if
        if I_CompareCounter SettlementsHoldBy_kwarezm_End = 4
        and I_CompareCounter SettlementsHoldBy_kwarezm_Start > 4
    increment_kings_purse kwarezm 3000
    end_if
        if I_CompareCounter SettlementsHoldBy_kwarezm_End = 5
        and I_CompareCounter SettlementsHoldBy_kwarezm_Start > 5
    increment_kings_purse kwarezm 3000
    end_if
        if I_CompareCounter SettlementsHoldBy_kwarezm_End = 6
        and I_CompareCounter SettlementsHoldBy_kwarezm_Start > 6
    increment_kings_purse kwarezm 2000
    end_if
end_monitor

Starting to get OT.