Is it true that Mohammed had no knowledge at all of Judiasm/ Christianity or the Bible?

[Helm]

Apparently he couldn't have know anything about it as there were no Bibles in Arabic and he couldn't read anyway, so the fact that you see so much of the Bible in the Quran is all the evidence you need that it come straight from God himself not Mohammed. But the thing is the Bible back then would have been in Latin anyway and hardly anyone could read.

[Squiggle]

You realize theres other ways of learning of a religion than reading the book, right? Even more so a religion that was wildly popular in the surrounding regions. The fact that the Quran inaccurately portrays Christian beliefs is evidence that Mohommad had inaccurate, incomplete information, and railed against it. That he, not God, wrote the Quran. For example the Quran says that to worship Mary, Jesus and God as one in the same is heretical...Christians dont worship mary as part of the trinity. Flaw. Jesus was never crucified...yet all historians acknowledge that yes, Jesus was infact crucified. Etc. Virtually every reference to Christianity in the Quran is just outright wrong.

[Helm]

I'm sure he wasn't quite as ignorant as the book I'm reading is trying to make out but I'm just making sure. It also claims that he was too intellectually mundane a man to produce poetic verses of the standard found within the Quran, a book no human could possibly have composed.

[Squiggle]

And....there was no uneducated prophets in Christianity who added to the bible? The psalms arent poetry? Look, if your going to be convinced that a religion is true cause it has a few flowery words, written by an uneducated guy, be my guest. But thats ing retarded.

[Helm]

I was just interested in seeing what the Muslims have to say about this. I'm fairly certain Mohammed wasn't the genuine article at all. The claim he didn't know anyhing about the Bible and couldn't possibly have borrowed from it is a big one.

[Khassaki]

Below is a hostile account but generally accurate
http://www.muslimhope.com/OriginsOfIslam.htm

Academic text for those who care.
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=...rigins&f=false

[Yosemite]

Below is a hostile account but generally accurate
http://www.muslimhope.com/OriginsOfIslam.htm

did this websight just say that allah comes from moon god

this is enough to dismiss it

when people don't want to understand simple translations, theres no hope left

No one is being oversensitive, were reacting to the moronic posts coming from helm because they are moronic. Stupidity pisses me off. He could become a Muslim or whatever, I dont care.

using sources is even more moronic

the academic paper that was posted earlier does not even talk about allah coming from the moon

why so inconsistant?

[xcorps]

Apparently he couldn't have know anything about it as there were no Bibles in Arabic and he couldn't read anyway, so the fact that you see so much of the Bible in the Quran is all the evidence you need that it come straight from God himself not Mohammed. But the thing is the Bible back then would have been in Latin anyway and hardly anyone could read.

Latin? By 500 AD the Bible had been translated into over 500 languages. You think the RC Church managed to extinguish every non latin copy of the bible in 70 years?

Mohammeds wife had a cousin who was a Christian Ebionite priest. Mohammed didn't have to read anything.
http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran...es/waraqa.html

[Claudius Gothicus]

No, actually lots of Jews lived in Mecca and the rest of the Arabian Peninsula coast. Sects of christianity were not unheard of too.

In short he had lots of contacts with other abrahamic religions.

[CamilleBonparte]

Helm appears to have the idea that Mohammed sat alone in a dark room and wrote the Quran without any contact with the outside world.

Something you have to remember about people in history...they actually lived lives.

[Helm]

There wasn't an English translation of the Bibleuntil much later at least, an English language Bible was something of a heresy for a while. But I'm looking to see if Muslims can back up their claims that the Quran could not possibly have been the work of Mohammed himself, because I see no reason why it couldn't have been.

Helm appears to have the idea that Mohammed sat alone in a dark room and wrote the Quran without any contact with the outside world.

Something you have to remember about people in history...they actually lived lives.

I keep saying I don't actually believe this to be the case so give it a rest. I know you must feel some kind of threat from Islam because it's a development/ripp off of the religion you believe in but I'm not a Muslim so don't worry.

[CamilleBonparte]

I keep saying I don't actually believe this to be the case so give it a rest.

Give what a rest? You make ridiculous threads based on false information. It's a waste of space. Give THAT a rest.

I know you must feel some kind of threat from Islam because it's a development/ripp off of the religion you believe in but I'm not a Muslim so don't worry.

I actually would prefer you convert to Islam so that you might stop making these threads. That's how much of a threat Islam is to me.

[xcorps]

Um, you said in the OP that he couldn't read. How do you suppose he learned to write without being able to also read? If he couldn't write, then the Quran was not the work of Mohammed himself.

[Helm]

Um, you said in the OP that he couldn't read. How do you suppose he learned to write without being able to also read? If he couldn't write, then the Quran was not the work of Mohammed himself.

As far as I know he dictated it to a scribe who wrote it for him. Though I still can't any reason to assume that Mohammed couldn't produced these verses himself, being completely illiterate doesn't necessarily compromise someones poetic talents, there were for instance wandering bards, skalds and story tellers back then, all based on verbal word of mouth talent.
As for the Quran being so good a piece of work that no human could hav written it I'm not so sure, the Tao chi ching is probably better unless something is lost in the English translation.

Give what a rest? You make ridiculous threads based on false information. It's a waste of space. Give THAT a rest.

The information is based on the claim of a Muslim which is probably fairly representtive of what most Muslims believe in regard to the Quran, that it couldn't have been made by Mohammed himself because it was well beyond his talents, I think he was talented enough.

I actually would prefer you convert to Islam so that you might stop making these threads. That's how much of a threat Islam is to me.

I thought you were having a go me for supporting Islam, so just to be clear that isn't what I'm doing. You can have a go at me anyway if you want it's no skin off my nose but probably better to save it up until I make a thread having a dig at Christianity, which I'm still happy to do. Only Christianity and Islam claim to be the universal religions for all mankind which you must accept under pain of hell so those religions can be dug at, all the rest tend to be ethnic/cultural/philosophical religions which are fine by me. Though perhaps Christianity has gone a bit soft on the fire and brimstone zeal as it's become more an advocant of multiculturalism where all religions are a path to God. Probably an improvement but I can't help but think it's been watered down, either the Bible is the one true path to God as it claims or it isn't.

[CamilleBonparte]

I thought you were having a go me for supporting Islam, so just to be clear that isn't what I'm doing. You can have a go at me anyway if you want it's no skin off my nose but probably better to save it up until I make a thread having a dig at Christianity, which I'm still happy to do.

I don't care if you are or aren't supporting Islam. What you posted was incoherent nonsense. That is where I take issue. If you traced a pattern in an obscure translation of the New Testament which predicted 9/11, and used this as a basis to assert Christianity as the truth, I would still criticize you.

Only Christianity and Islam claim to be the universal religions for all mankind which you must accept under pain of hell so those religions can be dug at, all the rest tend to be ethnic/cultural/philosophical religions which are fine by me.

Yeah I know, the Christian/Islamic description of the world isn't nice enough for you so you don't accept it. I understand where that comes from, I just figure most people grow out of that eventually.

[Helm]

Yeah I know, the Christian/Islamic description of the world isn't nice enough for you so you don't accept it. I understand where that comes from, I just figure most people grow out of that eventually.

The vast majority of modern Christians no longer believe in the original sin Christian doctrine from the middle ages anyway, though I think perhaps they're not really properly commited Christians and should probably find something else softer and more flowery to believe in. One thing you can say about Islam at least is they're all still commited to the sin and judgement beore God deal, it hasn't been penetrated by the liberal New Age movement. Mohammed unlike Jesus wasn't quite so nice a character, so perhaps more fitting with the harsh OT God of judgement and justice. There's no singing and clapping your hands in praise of Allah, you get down on your knees if you know whats good for you. Personally I would much rather materialism be true than what a few remaining hard line Christians and most Must Muslims still believe to be true, any deity who would give infinite punishments for finite sins is as good as a tyrant. Perhaps more of a tyrant in Islam because in Christianity there's the belief that he loves everyone and had his son die to save us from our sins, the sins he pushed on us in the first place mind you.

[Dr. Croccer]

Muhammed lived in a bustling trading cities in a region populated by Jewish tribes and Christian peoples closeby as well and worked as a trader. It would've been almost impossible for him not to come in contact with Christianity and Judaism.

[xcorps]

As far as I know he dictated it to a scribe who wrote it for him.

Which makes the Quran..not a product of Mohammed alone.

Though I still can't any reason to assume that Mohammed couldn't produced these verses himself,

Without literacy?

[Helm]

Which makes the Quran..not a product of Mohammed alone.

What I meant is that the words written in the Quran originally came from Mohammed himself and not from Allah/God at all, it was all his work with borrowings from Christianity and Judiaism.

Without literacy?

There would have been many wandering story tellers and bards at the who could tell a good story but not be able to read or write a word. Mohammed would essentially have just been a gifted story teller. Though it's possible that he really did believe he was a prophet, if he was convinced it would be easy to convince others and that his words really came from God himself. The book I'm reading claims that had he been a story teller than the Quran would contain far more mythical elements and magical beings than it does which is a fair claim. So perhaps his talent lay more in philosophic mysticism than story telling, particulrly as he borrowed most of the story elements from two other religions. The Quran isn't particularly easy to read or make sense of, which does kind of give it some religious clout, so it's easy to see how he impressed people at the time with this as much as he did. I assume the historical Jesus was someone very much like him in that sense, though more of a pacifist.

[C-Rob]

can I get the name ofthis ridiculous book, or the author... so I can see who the hell would have these ideas?