Financial effects of Vassalage?

[FootSoldier]

Are there any financial effects from having a vassal or being a vassal?

I cannot detect any. I have read on numerous posts about "getting" or "losing" half your income, but this doesn't seem match my games. I have had vassals and I have been a vassal.

The only effects I can see are those of being allied, and having mutual military access.

So, I dug out some saved games, where my Turkey was a vassal to the Byzantines for 150 odd turns. I was pursuing the path of peace at any cost (as per the quote from Erasmus about a bad peace being better than war).

Turkey attacked their suzerain, the Byzantines, cancelling the vassalage. (Turkey's ally the Pope disapproved :d)

I have posted before and after screenshots of the diplomacy and financial screens. The effect for Turkey of ceasing being a vassal was to lose income, due to the trade loss from now being at war with the Byzantines. There was no gaining back half the income, or any income at all.

Before Ishan lashes me with his mouse whip, yes, I did search on "vassals". I found 1654 posts. Only 1 post in the first 10 pages had "vassal" in the subject line. I browsed a bit. I reread Rebel666's post about acquiring vassals. The claim that getting or losing vassalage involved half the subject's income was repeated numerous times.

I've enjoyed having vassals for the military access (England used Polish territories as the battleground with the Timurids on behalf of their Polish vassal. Poland declared war on everyone the English did - gratifying. At one point in the Turkey campaign Turkey was vassal to both the Byzantines and the Milanese, but the Milanese cancelled.) I've had tribute from vassals as a condition of granting them the status, but the financial effect has finished with the end of the tribute.

I've come to the conclusion that there is no financial effect. Anyone know differently?

[Steven the conqueror]

Well, i'm going to share an experience.

a crusade on Cordoba has been called, as good Christian the Kingdom of England send Robert and successfully took Cordoba, well, then the moors attacked me, at that time my treasury was around 10000 florins, then a Moorish diplomat came, well, the result of the negotiation: I was vassal of the Moors while the Moors where my vassals xD (double vassaling), the next turn I had 50000 florins, I saw the Moors statistics and they had the most powerful economy in the campaign, so, yes, it affect economics

[John Doe]

That's a pic of when Mongols became my vassals, I think you get some of their cash left after the end of turn. As you can see, 137000 tribute isn't too bad.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The financial graph, my money went up as fast as theirs went down

[Czin]

That's a pic of when Mongols became my vassals, I think you get some of their cash left after the end of turn. As you can see, 137000 tribute isn't too bad.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The financial graph, my money went up as fast as theirs went down

Yowza, now that's a worthy successor of the Roman Empire right there! Now is this staggering amount of tribute just because the Mongols start with a huge pile of money, or do they really just have an enormous income?

But it's a huge city... and the second most inaccessible one in the old world, at that.

Why do you need anything above free upkeep guys in it? Wouldn't they be better used in the north?

You always need to have a plan for any eventuality just in case Murphy's law decides to invoke itself.

[John Doe]

Now is this staggering amount of tribute just because the Mongols start with a huge pile of money, or do they really just have an enormous income?

I think they don't start like that. It's that the units they have at the start of the game have 0 upkeep (may be except their general), so they keep their 9000/turn untouched for a very long time and that adds up until they settle down somewhere. With the color used on the financial graph, it's difficult to see on the pic, but you can see the amount going up in a straight line from the moment they appear (turn 70ish).

[Double A]

You always need to have a plan for any eventuality just in case Murphy's law decides to invoke itself.

Murphy's Law doesn't apply to the CAI.

[Czin]

Murphy's Law doesn't apply to the CAI.

I've seen the A.I bother to drag itself all the way to Timbuktu in force a few times. It just doesn't happen often, but it still can occur.

[Miroslav Klose]

Yes, Vassals do give you money.

[Silverheart]

Yikes.
From John Does example, it looks like you get ALL their money!
That can´t be right... right?

[Nazgûl Killer]

I've noticed something. It would appear that being someone's vassal doesn't take your money, however, having a vassal does take his money. Weird. Maybe it has something to do with the difficulties... Or maybe the system is just broken... Being a vassal should remove half your income to your lord.

[Double A]

In my experience, the AI just cheats itself more money so it can pay you. I have never been a vassal except once in Rome, so I can't answer the other half of the question.

[Exarch]

Apparently you get their excess money after their upkeep costs are paid every turn;
if they're in debt, then u get nothing

[Ishan]

Apparently you get their excess money after their upkeep costs are paid every turn;
if they're in debt, then u get nothing

Correct, 50% percent of the income they make that is profit per turn goes in our pocket if that AI faction is our vassal.
It's a good deal seeing that we get free money and don't have to spend money on managing their regions but then again human players can manage it more effectively(an experienced player) so instead of making vassals i prefer conquering their regions.

[Exarch]

Correct, 50% percent of the income they make that is profit per turn goes in our pocket if that AI faction is our vassal.
It's a good deal seeing that we get free money and don't have to spend money on managing their regions but then again human players can manage it more effectively(an experienced player) so instead of making vassals i prefer conquering their regions.

ah, i prefer the glory of having vassals
i like to sit back on my core regions (usually rich moneymaking regions) and let my vassals become fodder for the impending mongol advance....lol
besides, every now and then i like to send an expeditionary force led by a young prince to get xp by aiding my vassals in their wars; undoubtedly my most enjoyable game ever as the HRE.

i think in some games, they're tilted towards making it easier for u to get vassals and not to easy in other games, i could be wrong though

[Double A]

Correct, 50% percent of the income they make that is profit per turn goes in our pocket if that AI faction is our vassal.
It's a good deal seeing that we get free money and don't have to spend money on managing their regions but then again human players can manage it more effectively(an experienced player) so instead of making vassals i prefer conquering their regions.

You'd rather have a tier 2 city rather than half of the AI's cheat money?

[Ishan]

You'd rather have a tier 2 city rather than half of the AI's cheat money?

Yes because there are no cheats in vanilla or expansions. In SS etc there are money and kings purse increase scripts that provide assistance to AI in order to maintain ridiculous armies so making vassals in mods that have AI money scripts is a good way to go.
In vanilla the vassals are usually in debt having 2-3 regions so no use of making them if focusing on gaining something from them in money terms.

[Double A]

Yeah, but you get the money without having to do anything. And I don't think one backwater region is going to make much of a difference to your economy if it's already paying you.

[Ishan]

Yeah, but you get the money without having to do anything. And I don't think one backwater region is going to make much of a difference to your economy if it's already paying you.

AI can't provide the money a player needs one need to take the settlement. Population increase by putting chivalrous general, upgrading the settlement faster, buildings high markets farms etc. Player can do all this in a systematic way than AI doing it at random.
But yeah some people don't like to do micro-management but i have no problems in doing it.

[Double A]

I don't mind mic- wait, why are we talking about Vanilla?

[Ishan]

I don't mind mic- wait, why are we talking about Vanilla?

Because it's the M2-general discussion forums?