Why the Casse?

[Ahiga]

You heard me.

It had been frequent of debate on the RTR forums, and I had come to think that the casse tribes of Britain, or any, did not have any direct or potentially even any sort of military or political interaction with the mainland, and it may have been only Caesar's invasion that did anything.

As well, from a gameplay point of view and not historical, the AI as Casse fail to do anything. They simply conquer the entire Island, and sit there, waiting for a naval invasion that would only come from players, and in a low chance, the AI.

So why the Casse? Why are they added into the game if their historical and gameplay purposes are far from viable? I don't see this as the case with the Mauryans, where you can debate if they really had enough interaction to warrant inclusion. Is there a historical source behind their inclusion, or was it just pride in Celtic or English origin?

It's a tad condecending, but I'm really curious to why they were added, more than I am demanding or hostile on the issue.


Oh, I did forget though. The Date is extended to what, 14 AD? That might include more of the invasions in Britain.

[Ricimer]

You heard me.

It had been frequent of debate on the RTR forums, and I had come to think that the casse tribes of Britain, or any, did not have any direct or potentially even any sort of military or political interaction with the mainland, and it may have been only Caesar's invasion that did anything.

As well, from a gameplay point of view and not historical, the AI as Casse fail to do anything. They simply conquer the entire Island, and sit there, waiting for a naval invasion that would only come from players, and in a low chance, the AI.

So why the Casse? Why are they added into the game if their historical and gameplay purposes are far from viable? I don't see this as the case with the Mauryans, where you can debate if they really had enough interaction to warrant inclusion. Is there a historical source behind their inclusion, or was it just pride in Celtic or English origin?

It's a tad condecending, but I'm really curious to why they were added, more than I am demanding or hostile on the issue.


Oh, I did forget though. The Date is extended to what, 14 AD? That might include more of the invasions in Britain.

Please mods, I beg you, ban this guy.

[John I Tzimisces]

Please mods, I beg you, ban this guy.

Shush you. That is a rather well thought out post, and frankly, I agree with him. I have never seen the Casse invade continental europe, and vice versa, so I ask myself...why waste the bloody faction slot?

[Ahiga]

Lol. I ask a fine question, with perhaps only the slightest bit of malice in it, and you want me banned? The last comment is not condecending nor sarcasm, I know that the invasions of Britain really occured in the AD, and perhaps there was a major one by 14 AD. Are you so much a fanatic of your lineage that you want me banned, for asking about their removal because of historical accuracy?

I want to try and find out why the EB team decided to add them in, and if they had actual historical revelance in the period.

[Artannis Wolfrunner]

Heh, I'm not one for removing factions, since it takes a lot away from the game, but honestly, the Casse seen rather lame. In fact, in my campaign, they got killed off by the Eleuthoroi about 10 turns in. That gave me a laugh. Though, that doesn't mean I want them gone. The more factions the better in my opinion. A different faction somewhere else that might do something would probably be a better choice though.

[Cheexsta]

Well, what else are they going to put in? It would have to be another Barbarian culture (until the mod is ported over to 1.5, in which case it can be anything), and there's not much else I can see that would be of much use. Except maybe Illyria, like in RTR, but then they'd only have at most two regions at the beginning, not nearly enough when surrounded by 5 other factions.

Or maybe another Germanic faction? Or Sarmatian? But then, they are already a bit of a challenge to play as, do they really need another threat to deal with?

In RTR I can see why they removed the Britons, but in EB I don't think it's really necessary, not at this point in time.

[Aristocrat]

True the Britons were never completely united, just a collection of tribes like the mainland celts, why not drop the casse and possibly add another gallic or celtic faction?
Atm all the casse do with the mainland is build a boat and block gallic ports for the heck of it (which in a twisted way I find funny).
I can understand that EB might feel it is necessary to include a Briton faction but is it really? Eluethori do a fine job for other "factions" that never made it into the game and have more of an effect on the way the game plays out. (The helvetti rebels ambushed me and slaughtered my new best general).

[TheMantis]

There are several potential major players (Maurya, Meroe, Pergamum, etc.) that can and should take precedence over the Casse, so why not?

[Ricimer]

You people already have a mod that excludes Britain, it's called RTR and have it and enjoy it until your heart is content. Back off EB with your crap.

As for the comment about the Casse not invading mainland europe, I imagine that will change when this mod is ported to the lasted patch. Naval invasions are rare in 1.2.

Let me get this straight? You guys realized they won't drop the yuezhi as a faction so you turn on the casse? Get it through your skulls, nobody is ever going to mod in Maurya. Why should they, what did Maurya invade?! It's a faction almost nobody is ever even heard of. It won't fit on the map, so bloody drop it.

[TheMantis]

You people already have a mod that excludes Britain, it's called RTR and have it and enjoy it until your heart is content. Back off EB with your crap.

As for the comment about the Casse not invading mainland europe, I imagine that will change when this mod is ported to the lasted patch. Naval invasions are rare in 1.2.

Let me get this straight? You guys realized they won't drop the yuezhi as a faction so you turn on the casse? Get it through your skulls, nobody is ever going to mod in Maurya. Why should they, what did Maurya invade?! It's a faction almost nobody is ever even heard of. It won't fit on the map, so bloody drop it.

People with differing opinions? Holy ****! Never thought I would see the day!

Seriously, grow up. Just because someone has a different opinion doesn't mean that it's wrong. If there is a valid case for a faction to be in the game over another (which is certainly the case with the Yuezhi and the Casse), then bloody hell, I'm going to say something. Will it matter? Probably not. But at least I got my opinion in, for what it's worth.

[Ricimer]

People with differing opinions? Holy ****! Never thought I would see the day!

Seriously, grow up. Just because someone has a different opinion doesn't mean that it's wrong. If there is a valid case for a faction to be in the game over another (which is certainly the case with the Yuezhi and the Casse), then bloody hell, I'm going to say something. Will it matter? Probably not. But at least I got my opinion in, for what it's worth.

It has mattered. Discussions like this got britain removed from RTR. I happen to really like underdog factions and britain was one of the best. This isn't a matter of differing opinions. This kind of talk has already robbed me of one mod to play. I'm pretty annoyed at the thought of losing another. Move along boyo, there's other mods for you.

[John I Tzimisces]

You people already have a mod that excludes Britain, it's called RTR and have it and enjoy it until your heart is content. Back off EB with your crap.

As for the comment about the Casse not invading mainland europe, I imagine that will change when this mod is ported to the lasted patch. Naval invasions are rare in 1.2.

Let me get this straight? You guys realized they won't drop the yuezhi as a faction so you turn on the casse? Get it through your skulls, nobody is ever going to mod in Maurya. Why should they, what did Maurya invade?! It's a faction almost nobody is ever even heard of. It won't fit on the map, so bloody drop it.

What are you talking about, the Yuezhi were halfway out the door when the beta started anyway...

[colts2000]

Shush you. That is a rather well thought out post, and frankly, I agree with him. I have never seen the Casse invade continental europe, and vice versa, so I ask myself...why waste the bloody faction slot?

Lol. I ask a fine question, with perhaps only the slightest bit of malice in it, and you want me banned? The last comment is not condecending nor sarcasm, I know that the invasions of Britain really occured in the AD, and perhaps there was a major one by 14 AD. Are you so much a fanatic of your lineage that you want me banned, for asking about their removal because of historical accuracy?

I want to try and find out why the EB team decided to add them in, and if they had actual historical revelance in the period.

What are we talking about here? First of all, let's address the "vice versa" in the first qoute. Are you suggesting that the Gauls never invaded Britain? Thats what "vice versa" implies, and thats also incorrect. The Casse are certainly not a wasted faction slot. Historically speaking, if that's what we're debating here, sure, the Casse did not invade the mainland. Last time I checked, though, many of the other factions never really did much either, and there's no debate about having them removed from EB. The Casse, under the right leadership, certainly had the capability to invade northern Gaul if the need had arisen. The fact of the matter is that RTW is a game that allows for alternate history, otherwise every one of the factions would crap out and Rome would win every time, and therefore, the Casse are relevant.

Next, the second qoute. Ahiga, why are you bringing lineage or race into the mix here. What does it matter what anybody's lineage is here. Look, the history of the British peoples is very important to world history, being that they kicked the crap out of everybody and ruled the world after the Romans did. If Bactria is relevant, the Casse are at least twice as much (and i'm not even of British descent).

Overall, yes, I agree that the Casse are slow movers and don't accomplish much as AI, but then again, that means the AI are playing the game accurately according to history. If you would like to see the Casse change history a bit, play as them.

By the way, those of you interested in Britain, visit my mods forum in addition to EB's.

[Ahiga]

Colts, it's a bit funny that it became a bit of an accusation of racism. The comments I had seen on the RTR forums most often divulged from the players pride in their hertiage, which is fantastic, but became their only real logic behind it. I had not witnessed many other factions of the classical period which would have players so taken with it, and while that is very cool, it began to get irritating to see people seem to base their demand of the British Tribe's inclusion SOLELY upon those factors. To me, that'd be like my barging into the Chivalry forums and screaming at them for not including the Scots.

The British took a very important stage in European Politics (And world politics later on) once the Invasion of Rome set people off to noticing and desiring a piece of that lovely land beyond Gaul. The Saxons, The Vikings, the Normans, and then the English invasions of France, the crusades, and many other regions.

Do you notice the similiarty to all those? They all occured at a later date than the period of EB. So your arguement of the Casse being as important as the Bactrian's does not hold up for this time period, though it certainly does for later periods beyond it.

The question that is the issue is whether or not the Casse had enough revelance in the time period of EB's to be included, when compared to cultures and peoples that did. I love the cultures and people of Arabia..but if the Sabaeteans and others that are being promoted are not included, I will not boycott the mod or otherwise yell at people who don't want them included. The team said that historical accuracy comes before gameplay, so while the faction may be a joy to play, if they had no real involvement in the poltics and military affairs of their neighbors, then they may warrant removal.

[Cheexsta]

What are we talking about here? First of all, let's address the "vice versa" in the first qoute. Are you suggesting that the Gauls never invaded Britain? Thats what "vice versa" implies, and thats also incorrect. The Casse are certainly not a wasted faction slot. Historically speaking, if that's what we're debating here, sure, the Casse did not invade the mainland. Last time I checked, though, many of the other factions never really did much either, and there's no debate about having them removed from EB. The Casse, under the right leadership, certainly had the capability to invade northern Gaul if the need had arisen. The fact of the matter is that RTW is a game that allows for alternate history, otherwise every one of the factions would crap out and Rome would win every time, and therefore, the Casse are relevant.

Next, the second qoute. Ahiga, why are you bringing lineage or race into the mix here. What does it matter what anybody's lineage is here. Look, the history of the British peoples is very important to world history, being that they kicked the crap out of everybody and ruled the world after the Romans did. If Bactria is relevant, the Casse are at least twice as much (and i'm not even of British descent).

Overall, yes, I agree that the Casse are slow movers and don't accomplish much as AI, but then again, that means the AI are playing the game accurately according to history. If you would like to see the Casse change history a bit, play as them.

By the way, those of you interested in Britain, visit my mods forum in addition to EB's.

I agree that a person's lineage should not be brought into the discussion. Attack the arguement, not the person, as the saying goes.

But I disagree that the Casse are "twice as relevant" as the Baktrians (and I AM of British decent ). Yes, Britain was a major power after the Romans withdrew and the WRE collapsed, but that's some 400+ years after the EB timeline. During the three centuries of the game, the Britons did nothing. They sat there, and maybe traded with some of the Northern Gauls, but that's it, until Julius Caesar and Tiberius (I think?) started invading. Baktria, on the other hand, was a major player in the downfall of the Seleucid Empire, which is already more than the Britons did.

Now having said all that, I see no need to change it. With EB on the 1.2 patch, the cultures of each faction are hardcoded, so whatever faction would replace the Casse would have to be of Barbarian culture. That leaves us with a few choices: more Gauls? They already have two factions, the other lesser tribes are already represented with the Eleutheroi. Germans? Same as the Gauls. Illyrians? They'd be at such a disadvantage it's not funny, having 1-2 provinces and surrounded by 5 other factions. More Sarmatians? No real point. More Spanish tribes? Again, the Eleutheroi already represent them.

If/when the EB team makes the mod compatible for 1.5, it's possible that another faction can be added, anyway (from the Senate faction, but I'm not sure - would be easier if the mod was for 1.6). And with cultures being swappable...who knows?

So really, while there's no real point in having the Casse in the first place, it's already present in the game, and it's not hurting anyone by being there. May as well keep 'em, really...

[Ahiga]

Please explain why your interests and your 'loss' of this mod, is important enough to warrant having the Mantis's Own interests, as well as my own, and others who would prefer a faction that has greater interaction with the rest of the world and had a historical revelance, disregarded, and having us deemed to 'move along'.

Really, I'd like to hear why you think your demands and desires of the mod is more important than anyone elses. Did you work on the Mod? Did you develop it? The Casse models? What makes this your mod and not themantis's, mine, and all the other fan's and workers of EB.

[Ricimer]

Please explain why your interests and your 'loss' of this mod, is important enough to warrant having the Mantis's Own interests, as well as my own, and others who would prefer a faction that has greater interaction with the rest of the world and had a historical revelance, disregarded, and having us deemed to 'move along'.

Really, I'd like to hear why you think your demands and desires of the mod is more important than anyone elses.

Because the faction I desire is already in, modded, and built. Your requests would require going back to the drawing back and delaying the mod for months. I can definitely say that your desires are hurtful and damaging to the mod, and to the community who have been anticipating it.

I think we're done here.

[alman9898]

Maurya will not be included because EB does not have the province space to historically depict it - that is, cover ALL of its territories.

[TheMantis]

Maurya will not be included because EB does not have the province space to historically depict it - that is, cover ALL of its territories.

That still does not discount the inclusion of factions like Meroe (Nile River power), Pergamum (Asia Minor kingdom), Illyria (same as in RTR, Adriatic Sea faction), or Bosphorus (Greek kingdom in modern Crimea). Certainly, all of them are more relevant than the Yuezhi or the Cassi.

[QwertyMIDX]

Illyria is not a kingdom, it's a place full of disunited tribes, adding "Illyria" would be like adding "Germans" or "Gauls." Plus there's the fact that Eperios controls half of Illyria at the start of EB.

Then there is the question of "relevant", relevant to who or what? EB tries not to judge everything on its interaction with Rome or even with the Mediterranean world. The fact of the matter is that outside of the major players saying "The Sabeans are more relevant than the Casse" or something along those lines is just a judgement call, and is certinly not a statement of fact.