Protectorates

Hello everyone,

I am seeking advice on protectorates. Since this is my first coalitions I have enjoyed the novelty of liberating Netherlands, Belgium and Bretagne. I will no doubt do it with Catalonia. But I wanted to know people’s opinion of to liberate or not to liberate?

Incidentally, I am playing a Britain. My plan is to knock out Spain the move on France. I want to push the French boats out of all the sea north of Spain. Using Nelson off the coast of Portugal to stop boats getting out of the Mediterranean. I will also use spies to sabotage French ports. Does this tactic work?

As you are no doubt aware, there are advantages and disadvantages to having protectorates.

The pros:
1. They don't require a garrision of your forces, so freeing your armies to campaign elsewhere.
2. They automatically allow military access (and re-supply). This can mean that they function as a shelter for your armies if the enemy is not at war with the protectorate.
3. They are available as a friendly trade partner (dependant on available trade routes, of course)
4. They count as one of your provinces for the short and long campaign targets.
5. You gain a small amount of additional income from them (tribute) each turn.

The cons:
1. You don't get any advantage from the facilities and buildings of the protectorate. (e.g. if Catalonia is a protectorate, those spys are Catalonian and not yours)
2. You can get drawn into wars against your own allies. For example, one of your protectorates shares a border with one of your allies - such as Saxony (your protectorate) and Prussia (your ally). Prussia will not view the protectorate as a friend-of-a-friend and can declare war. You either have to side with the protectorate and go to war with your former ally or suffer the reputation hit for not honoring your agreement with the protectorate.

So whether it's worth while will depend on where you are and what the benefits of that particular protectorate are.

For some reason I always choose to side with my protectorates when my allies atatck? In my Russian campaign I was at war with Austria and Prussia, in my GB campaign I have been at war with Prussia.

I just feel warm inside when I look after them ^-^

Because AI factions get core income + taxes + trade bonus, a protectorate usually makes more economic sense if the region is relatively poor -- since the protectorate shares half of their total income with you. If you occupied rather than liberated, you'd only get the taxes from that region. The disadvantage is that you won't be producing or researching from that region. Netherlands has 3 building slots (meaning 3 units per turn for you) and a nice college, and works really well as a continental military base. On the other hand, there's little worth having in Bretagne for Britain -- you already have enough dockyards.

My rule of thumb: 3 building slots or more, a built-up research center or spy center, or 2000+ income region: I'll occupy for myself. Otherwise, it'd be more useful as a protectorate.

And, of course, always defend the protectorates. It's an excellent opportunity to take up a "just cause": take a bunch of regions from an ally without triggering a diplomatic penalty. After you beat the tar out of the formerly Great Power, offer peace in exchange for them surrendering some of their remaining provinces (besides their capital). Easy way to wear down massive nations like France or Russia without having to march legions all around Europe.

I'm going for the shield of the protector achievement so i liberate where i can I'm now at 3 (only beginning of the campaign): italy, united netherlands and westphalia

But yes, you can get dragged into wars. As france I liberated westphalia, and the next turn the dutch declared war on them. I then took amsterdam and liberated it

I got that in my campaign as France.Here's my protectorates.(Kingdom of Bavaria,Kingdom of Baden-Wuttermburg, The Swiss Confederation, The Austrian Empire,The Prussian Kingdom,The Kingdom of Spain ,Denmark-Norway,The Duchy of Mecklenburg,The Duchy of Oldenburg,The Kingdom of Saxony,Duchy of Warsaw,The Kingdom of Westphalia)the only states that are not my protectorates are:Great Britian,The Ottoman Empire,The Russian Empire,The Kingdom of Italy,and the Kingdom of Naples.Of these I'm allied to all but Russia and Great Britian.

Originally Posted by Tusk

Hello everyone,

I am seeking advice on protectorates. Since this is my first coalitions I have enjoyed the novelty of liberating Netherlands, Belgium and Bretagne. I will no doubt do it with Catalonia. But I wanted to know people’s opinion of to liberate or not to liberate?

Incidentally, I am playing a Britain. My plan is to knock out Spain the move on France. I want to push the French boats out of all the sea north of Spain. Using Nelson off the coast of Portugal to stop boats getting out of the Mediterranean. I will also use spies to sabotage French ports. Does this tactic work?

Sounds like a good plan to me

If u need the money i would suggest keeping them yourself, but if you do not need money badly liberate them, otherwise you will have to buy more men and you will have to leave men from your army to keep them under control, this is annoying and slows down your attack. Use Gibraltar to your advantage by landing your army there.

I have a question?Can I mod the diplomatic relations so some nations start as my protectorate.I want to do that with Italy,since Napoleon was Emperor of the French and King of Italy.

I've found protectorates to be very useful in my current campaign as Great Britain, they were essential to the quick completion of my objectives (it's sometime in the year 1809).

When I first invaded France I made my landing at Antwerp and captured Brussels; a good sized Batavian Republic army reinforced the French and was decimated, leaving Amsterdam ripe for the picking. I liberated Belgium and took Amsterdam on my next turn. When Amsterdam was secure I sent my army to seige Paris and a second army to Alsace-Lorraine. After taking Paris with my first army, the second army took Alsace-Lorraine which I then gifted to Belgium. After quelling a rebellion in France, my second army set about liberating Switzerland, Wurttemberg and Italy, completely cutting off the French armies in the East from returning West to stop me from seizing their remaining holdings there. With no support, Spain fell shortly after when I sent both of my armies south.

Liberating can also be quite useful for an army on the move, as you deprive the enemy of it's territory without getting your army bogged down controlling public order.

Not only for reasons considering the mechanics of the game itself I find protectorates a great idea.

Historically seen it was a clear exception when a nation conquered a region and incorporated it to its own territory. When this happened, it was usually the case with regions who were located directly next to the home territory of the nation and mostly had been the bone of contention for many, many years before. Other regions who were conquered normally were made protectorates aka puppet states (if one can say so in English, in German we say 'Marionettenregierung').

What I'm missing in N:TW are some features who clearly were connected with puppet states:

- access to their military power (more than just a few silly units when creating the protectorate)
- the possibility to control their politics (trade agreements, etc.)
- access to their traderoutes to trade with nations with which you do not have direct contact (maybe with in connection with a primitive form of duty-tolls)

One could say: with those features it makes no sense to let a protectorate be a protectorate, because it will then be no more than a simple province of your nation. But: there's a distinct difference. The historical one...

Historically seen it was a clear exception when a nation conquered a region and incorporated it to its own territory. When this happened, it was usually the case with regions who were located directly next to the home territory of the nation and mostly had been the bone of contention for many, many years before. Other regions who were conquered normally were made protectorates aka puppet states (if one can say so in English, in German we say 'Marionettenregierung').

Very well put. I just played my first game as France and did not really understand the game mechanics and was ignorant of the history back then. I basically annexed everything I conquered, but the more I played, the more I read on the history and studied maps in that time period and my next game I will "try" to only annex those historically annexed by France.

That's what I love about games like this and did the same for RTW.

Originally Posted by Tusk

Hello everyone,

I am seeking advice on protectorates. Since this is my first coalitions I have enjoyed the novelty of liberating Netherlands, Belgium and Bretagne. I will no doubt do it with Catalonia. But I wanted to know people’s opinion of to liberate or not to liberate?

Incidentally, I am playing a Britain. My plan is to knock out Spain the move on France. I want to push the French boats out of all the sea north of Spain. Using Nelson off the coast of Portugal to stop boats getting out of the Mediterranean. I will also use spies to sabotage French ports. Does this tactic work?

Whether I liberate or not depends on a few factors, some of them relative to my current game (i.e. proximity to enemy, threat of invasion, buffer zone). If I'm playing as the British, it depends on where the territory is - I never liberate Brittany, Belgium, Netherlands, Westphalia or any of the buffer states north of Switzerland because of the likelihood they'll be invaded and reoccupied by France in a few turns. This, however, would depend on how your war with France is going, and also how aggressive and numerous the fighting is around France and the buffer states.

Interestingly enough, I've used this tactic in three different campaigns, and failed all three times. My advice, based off of the mistakes I made in game, would be to make absolutely sure that you invade with at least 2 armies, both fully stacked with arty and cav, no matter what your current map looks like. Personally, I would bring a third stack of only infantry and cav, to reinforce the 2 main armies if needed, resupply troops, and most importantly to occupy territory as soon as you capture it so that you can be ready to defend yourself next turn.

Once Spain is fully occupied, hide your 2 main armies near the Alpine Pass so that they can ambush any invading French. From Milan, turn out some arty and skirmishers so that you've got a third full army, then send it along with the other two into France, being sure to have your tag along army of reinforcements. Once again, don't stop. It's imperative that you maintain momentum and don't allow the French to grossly outnumber you by the time you reach Paris.

Good luck! Let me know how it turns out, man. I'm always anxious to hear about successful blunders.