Mongols

[saneel]

Has anyone here defeated them? I am playing with Islamic Ottoman Empire -.- , Pope has called crusade on Istanbu (it should be named Istanbul), and I am having war on like 5 fronts, I killed probaly no less than 20 catholic generals on crusade, I am in war with mongols, cuman and russians no the north steppes, and I am afraid I will get attacked by those cursed Shia Fatamid because they have wiped out those franks in the Holy Land -.- anyway, all mongolian units are elite, they are somehow cheap and they have thousands of them. They just seem to be unnstopable, and when I get my jannisarys? They have crushed K.E and cumans with ease and are now knocking on my door. How long will they be spamming elite armies and is there any way to stop them? Thank you for any good advices -.-

[Caesar Clivus]

First of all, what version of SS are you running? And are you running any submods?

[saneel]

6.3 with mssc 3.2.2

[Lugiahua]

Mongols are never a problem to me, since I usually play "western" factions like France, England or Scottland...

[StyggeKrumpen]

Advice on beating the Mongols:

Use assasins to kill their very annoying dread generals.

Do not fight them on open ground try to get them to lay siege to a well defended province and kill them at the gates.

Mongols often stick together so when you see one army more is coming soon.

Dont let them get any good castles try to deny them the ability to retrain or rebuild their armies.

Mongols have a large territory so provinces a long way from the capital is easy to manipulate into revolt. Use priest/imams to concert poupulation and put spies in the city and a revolt will come. This can also be used if a mongol army has taken one of your territories simply manipulate a revolt and it will drain their army because of the troops lost every round to revolt.

[StratApple]

As for Constantinople being renamed to Istanbul; You can always rename the city by yourself or use the Istanople sub-mod

[saneel]

Well I have no chances with assasins, they have like 10% chances to kill. That with imams is good idea, I am trying it, but everytime mongols take city they extermine it. So people are scared to death -.- kekeke I am more worried, when I will get my elite armies - jannisaries?

[Ishan]

Well I have no chances with assasins, they have like 10% chances to kill. That with imams is good idea, I am trying it, but everytime mongols take city they extermine it. So people are scared to death -.- kekeke I am more worried, when I will get my elite armies - jannisaries?

You can try ambushing the mongols build a fort with low garrison they will attack it while the real army that you have is hidden nearby that will assist or act as the terminators.
Fighting siege battles is another easy way of defeating the mongols as horse archers & heavy Mongolian cavalry are rendered useless there and your heavy infantry or spear units can chop them off while archers shooting from back.

Last is if you have a unit that can lay down stakes then lay it infront of the gates and cavalry is a gonner than.

[vtec.dominion]

I am playing with Turks in Late Era, MSC 4.2, VH/VH.
Now in the process of anninhilating the Mongols
I do not know how far you are, what's your faction condition and what era you play. Anyway, here is what i found vital to completely destroy the hordes:

- Having at least Alamut upgraded at least to fortress level and defend there.
Fill it with 5-6 spear units (Dism. Spahisi or Heavy Spearmen if possible), and the rest of foot missile units (Ottoman Infantry is the best being able to give reasonable melee competition if needed). Now, this is important to lower your casualties: One or two of NAFFATUN units flanking the gate
I say have at least one naffatun unit in every region which is supposed to beign sieged. To recruit naffatun you need Large Bazaar and Alchemy Lab (Large Bazaar activate Alchemy Lab). This unit is useless in open field battles, but we will discuss that later.

- Best ring of defence is Alamut - Kermanshah - Ahvaz + Basra and the bridge between the castle and city. Simply fortify them well and take the first storm there.

You can attack Alamut and Kermanshah off the bat and then take the Ahvaz quickly. If you play Late Era Kwarezmians may not be interested in selling Alamut. Once these regions are yours ceasfire and offer alliance to the Kwarezmians. You may have to gif them some money to improve your standings. I say DEFINIATELY alliance with them when you have Alamut and Kermanshah. Help them every now and then gifting some money.

- If you aim to completely destroy the Mongols you definiately need cash!
So if your main goal is to compete with the Hordes sucessfully you have to get 3 smaller objectives completed:

a) take Constantinople (Istanbul), Adrianople and Canakkale and alliance with Hungary.

b) Kick Roman Empire off Asia Minor (use bridge around Nicaea for mass destruction)

c) take levant cities and Holy Land (eliminate Crusaders and Egypt). Well, best way to finish them off is to use Fari Cavalry & Spahisi Lancers combo. If you play Late Era dont bother with Turkish Horse Archers, they are useless imho and won't be of any use in the future.

Another method if you want or simply have to use your infantry/foot archers is using the spies to open the gate and then attack for 3 sides. Simply split your army into 3 individual forces, flank the left and right gate and leave the central force in front of main gate out of towers/archers range. March your flanking forces onto city square cutting enemy units on the way to clear off the main gate.

NOW ... this is VERY IMPORTANT ... and something many forget...

USE YOUR NAVY for army distribution & coastial shock attacks.
I found navy VERY useful becouse it really save your money!

OK, back to the Mongols.
So, defend your south-middle eastern regions and start planning the furter invasion. As i said already, NAVY is your biggest advantage and you should use it for sea raids and rear attacks! This way you can quickly take their coastial regions cutting down their much needed income.
Have at least one diplomat patrolling Mongol regions. You can get short-time ceasefire if you're in need of reinforcement/rebuild/ or re-organise armies.
Again, you may have to gift them few coins to improve your chances.

Now the open field battles. Remember that at least half of their armies is cavalry (missile/light, fast one/heavy). You should compose your armies according to theirs. The best open field army i've found is something like that:
1 x GB, 2 x mangonels set to fire their range units, 6 x Ottoman Infantry, 2 x Javelinmens, 4 x Spahisi Lancers, 5 x Heavy Spearmen.
Remember to use your weakest units on the first line to take the charge impact (lowest cost/easiest to retrain/best replenish/availbility ratio).

Best way to fight them outside the walls are obvious: briges and choke points (mountain passes around Tbilisi, Ahvaz and so).
Anyway, it is possible to beat them anywhere.

Oh, you may want to recruit ELEPHANT mercenaries and use them against strong Heavy Cavalry/Heavy Inf armies.
Against strong HA/archers armies use it on your own risk, they can run amok and smash half of your armies if you miss them off your radar
Regions to recruit ELEPHANTS: Baghdad, Basra, Kermanshah, Alamut and down south. Also available around Medina/Mecca/Luxor.

ALWAYS set your infantry to LOOSE FORMATION if you're playing field battles. This will lower your casualties significally as cavalry charge is not that effective then.
Position your light cav wide and aim mangonels to enemies range units (cos of friendly fire). NEVER ever use Hasham Infantry in the first/second line, they are shock troops and won't stand cavalry charges. I found them not effective against Mongols, not in open field battles.
BUT ... USE them assaulting the heavy garrisoned cities and they will get exp bonuses quick enough.
Do not bother with your horse archers (do not even think to recruit Turkomans or worse Turkish HA = waste of money), you have NO chances even with experienced Faris, they WILL outshoot you lol.

Ghulam Heavy Cavalry is effective as long as you fight armies composed mostly on Heavy Inf/Heavy Cav. Ghulam Heavy Cav is SLOW so no good against light cav and HA. You have to remember that tired unit is less effective and easier to route/surrender.

NEXT thing - Armour! Remember that the Mongols mostly use elite units, well armoured and well equipped. So upgrade armour as soon as possible to get defence bonuses.

OK, think these are the major issues you have to sort out with your own campaign, but if you have any questions ... well, im around

Janissary troops are available from 1380, recruitable in Huge Cities, you need Military Academy building as well, recruitment time - 6 turns.
Notice that Timurids arrive in 1370

Good luck, please report how the things going.

Has anyone here defeated them? I am playing with Islamic Ottoman Empire -.- , Pope has called crusade on Istanbu (it should be named Istanbul), and I am having war on like 5 fronts, I killed probaly no less than 20 catholic generals on crusade, I am in war with mongols, cuman and russians no the north steppes, and I am afraid I will get attacked by those cursed Shia Fatamid because they have wiped out those franks in the Holy Land -.- anyway, all mongolian units are elite, they are somehow cheap and they have thousands of them. They just seem to be unnstopable, and when I get my jannisarys? They have crushed K.E and cumans with ease and are now knocking on my door. How long will they be spamming elite armies and is there any way to stop them? Thank you for any good advices -.-

Just a question:
Do you use a diplomacy at all ? If cumans are fighting the Mongols as well, you should at least go for hostility and maybe form an alliance with them.
It can cost you a bit but worth a coin imho as you can use your forces striking the horde back.
And letting Fatimids grow and take the CS off made your situation much harder.
I have learned one thing: Never ever trust or rely the Fatimids when playing Turks. They WILL betray you at first possible attempt no matter your standings.
They simply can't resist attacking the ports and are ADDICTED to spies/assassins staff lol.

[saneel]

4.2.2(link please)? What's wrong with 3.2.2? cumans are weak, have just like 2,3 provinces left, they will be wiped out soon and they attacked me first just a few turnes ago. I know I was too much busy with the crusades to advance anywhere. Will report soon enough -.-

[Ishan]

4.2.2(link please)?

Fixes 4.2 download

What's wrong with 3.2.2?

Nothing new one has more fixes thats all please check the log to know more.

[saneel]

I have that, just title of topic is 3.2.2 don't know why,...

[vtec.dominion]

If Fatimids and Moors are strong call a Jihad targeting Mongol city.
Remember that every army participating in Jihad get a huge movement bonus, so you should turn this advantage in your favour

[brandbll]

So i started a campaign as teh mongols on SS6.3 and i saw that i started off with a bunch of stacks and money, which i assumed was to initially fund those 4-5 stacks. Then as i started to progress about 6 years in i noticed out of no where i was given like 5 more stacks of troops at my capital!! I'm like 50,000 in the hole now! When do I stop spawning random stacks of troops? Do i just not bother with money and keep using random stacks? Please help, thanks!

[Ishan]

So i started a campaign as teh mongols on SS6.3 and i saw that i started off with a bunch of stacks and money, which i assumed was to initially fund those 4-5 stacks. Then as i started to progress about 6 years in i noticed out of no where i was given like 5 more stacks of troops at my capital!! I'm like 50,000 in the hole now! When do I stop spawning random stacks of troops? Do i just not bother with money and keep using random stacks? Please help, thanks!

^IdenticalSimilar threads Merged.

[brandbll]

LOL!!! ^^^^

When i was first going to pose this question i considered posting it here, but this thread is about playing AGAISNT the computer. I'm asking about a problem i'm having and not understanding playing AS the mongols. Similar threads, but they aren't identical at all. Well hopefully someone here can answer my question...

BTW, is it possible i got all of those stacks because i completed a mission and took a town and my reward was "various military units", or something similar to that?

[saneel]

I did I aint noob, I just wanna know when they will stop spamming elite armies,...

[Bund weicher Birnen]

in 6.3 with MSSC the mongols are too weak... I crushed them every time when they try to conquer Asia Minor while I'm playing the Roman Empire! The Problem is that the Mongols are too slow. It should be more historical accurate to simulate the storm of the mongols in my opinion

[Meneth]

I'm assuming you're playing on very hard (if not, don't complain about too low difficulty )
Find this section in the campaign script:

monitor_event PreFactionTurnStart FactionIsLocal
    if not I_EventCounter DifficultyLevel = 4 ;very hard
        terminate_monitor
    end_if

    if I_CompareCounter mongol_spawning = 5
        set_counter mongol_spawning 0
    end_if

    inc_counter mongol_spawning 1
end_monitor

Then just change "if I_CompareCounter mongol_spawning = 5" to a lower number. The number says how often, in turns, the Mongols get new reinforcements.

[Bund weicher Birnen]

Thanks Meneth, i will try it!