VoiceMod?

[Darkragnar]

Do u guys want a Greek Voice mod to be inlcuded with Hegemonia ?
because a Voice mod is very doable at this point in the development cycle.


also for thoese of u who want to include the voicemod, would u be willing to give samples for it? thats a very easy way to get into the dev team ,
since all u have to do is speak some greek, dont worry about the words since we have some very englightened people in the team who know what was the trend in that time and what the comman words were back then.

[k_raso]

Totally yes...

No one has voted negative to the proposal till now.

Pity, I`m a native Spanish speaker, also speak English pretty well, and also German with a little accent. Guess it`s of no use for the voice mod.

Great idea. Hope you triumph where other mods have stalled. Presently, EB is working on a greek voice mod too, but it`s stalled.

Hope you pull this thing out!!!

[Maethius]

Why not!

[akma]

----oi?

[bestantreas]

I vote yes, but I think you should release it as a patch or as an add on. IIt will have a big size, so not everybody inhere will be able to download it. I think the mod will be about 150-250MB, and the voicemod about 20-40MB.

[apostate]

darkragnar there is already a team member who is making the first practises on the voice samples so that we reach a pretty good result

but we have to be careful so that we can get as close as possible to the way the words we need sounded in ancient language

[Zenith Darksea]

Don't let modern Greek pronunciation slip in, whatever you do! Many Greeks today don't seem to realise that Classical Greek in its various dialects was pronounced quite differently to modern Greek.

[EddieripsupAthens]

Greek voices...That would be sth great! (Even if it's difficult)...

[Sidus Preclarum]

Don't let modern Greek pronunciation slip in, whatever you do! Many Greeks today don't seem to realise that Classical Greek in its various dialects was pronounced quite differently to modern Greek.

countdown to "erasmian vs modern greek" debate : 10... 9...

[apostate]

i think that indeed modern greek are far from how ancient greek were pronounced....i think the ancient was more melodic or so

also now we dont pronounce the "long" "o" (Ω) for sure and probable the long "e" (H)
..same i guess the "Β" was more close to western B than the way we speak it now (as "V")

but i dont know about "Γ" spoken as G and "Δ" spoken as D...i think that they assume that because in ancient greek vocabulary there are absent words with start from "ΓΚ" and "ΝΤ" which in modern greek they are spoken as "G" and "D"......all those words which we now use in modern greek come from "loans" from other languages or come from slang language.....but thats no proof

also i think that indeed the several vowels and diphthongs that now are spoken the same,probable should have slightly different pronounciation which would make the language more rich and melodic

on the other hand the "erasmian" is not to be considered as pundit....its clearly made to put the ancient greek in terms of the westerns and it makes them sound more like lets say german or french than greek

also in ancient times there were numerous different dialects and therefore different pronounciantions i suppose...moreover the so called iotacism already was in use in classical era

for sure the ancient greek was much more complicated and rich but i dont believe myself that ancient greeks were spoken with umlauts like german lads etc...

generally speaking it was that lousy "globalisation" of hellenistic times that messed up everything

[Idomeneas]

ancient greek surely had differences but those were mainly on owels like ''o'' and the toning of words. For example omega Ω was two O in a role thats why the sound lasted ''double time'' today there is no difference in pronounciation only in grammar. There are changes but not so dramatic. Thousands of ancient words are intact since homeric era. Erasmian method wasnt the best way to describe greek sound. It was an easy way for FOREIGNERS to learn greek. If we examine various greek dialects (cretan, pontus, cypriot in many instances, pelloponesian) and most of all the ecclesiastic language which froze in time and its VERY but VERY close to attic koine dialect we will see that there are differences but not in the core of the language. Do not comfuse slang or street talk. Take as example formal documents or formal speaches. If you wanna write a good essay most of the words are 100% ancient or at least composite by them.

And to end this once and for all i agree that a living language can be altered through time and its reasonable. Everything used in voice mod will be done in the right archaic language as far the researches and natural relation with hellenic language can provide.
But in pronounciation issues as long nobody has a taped speech of Pericles in his pocket to prove a case i think modern greek are the closest around. When somebody says that something should be avoided i guess he can also provide the right solution. Enlight us please.

[Dark Fenrir]

Well its look like that guys want voice mod, but noeone of them want give samples for it

[Zenith Darksea]

Well, currently I'm studying philology as my Classics special subject (if anyone knows how ancient Greek was pronounced, it'll be my tutor!), and I have a microphone, so I might record a few voice samples in my spare time if you'd like. Though you may not like my own voice, I don't know.

[ozz]

I think the mod will be about 150-250MB, and the voicemod about 20-40MB.

more like 40-80MB....

[apostate]

Well, currently I'm studying philology as my Classics special subject (if anyone knows how ancient Greek was pronounced, it'll be my tutor!), and I have a microphone, so I might record a few voice samples in my spare time if you'd like. Though you may not like my own voice, I don't know.

well it depends....except if he sent a microphone or something back then to record the greeks...
there are 2 guys (greek speaking) who made some first steps in recording,but u are also welcome to give it a try

however if the samples are pure erasmian i consider it same as i consider somebody who claims that ancient greeks spoke same as modern ones....

basically i dont really know a safe way of how ancient greek were pronounced and although besides some well known things that its difficult to dispute (and the greeks who do dispute those issues are IMO badly mistaken)
...anyway the decision whether the voices will be a mix of erasmian and archaic (kathareusa) greek or modern greek with maybe more "melodic" pronounciation isnt yet final....(we discuss it)
...but if u have an objective guide of the true evidence of how ancient greek were pronounced u are MORE than wellcome to bring it on!

ie references such as : BH BH as bee bee (sheep noise which is clearly reference in aristophanes and suggest that the sheep would sound as "VI VI" in modern greek if the letters "B" and "H" sounded the same as today....which is of course wrong since we all know how the sheep sounds)

[Zenith Darksea]

Well, if a leading Oxford University expert on ancient Latin and Greek phonology didn't know what he was talking about, I would imagine that they'd get somebody else to teach the philology course! Sorry, I didn't make myself clear the first time. 'Philology' is the study of the development of language and in particular the development of phonetics and phonology, or in simpler terms, it's study of how words were pronounced in the past. As such, would you imagine that my professor (being as he is a fellow of Oxford University and one of the leading experts in Europe) would not know how best to pronounce ancient languages? If he didn't know, then he wouldn't be teaching at this university. Arrogant as it sounds, I don't think you can get a better possible source. And besides, I also have the Bodleian Library (which contains every book ever published in Great Britain) as a useful reading resource. I know however from my experience of creating a voice mod for Troy Total War that modern Greek speakers cannot always be relied upon to give satisfactory results.

Incidentally, for an 'objective' (as you put it) guide on the philology of ancient Greek, I'd recommend you read A. L. Sihler, New Comparative Grammar of Greek and Latin, New York-Oxford 1995

[apostate]

as i said it depends....if he uses pure erasmian as all westerns do then he is based on erasmos apparently...thats not an ancient source....that makes greek sound as western language

also i thought that what u describe as "philology" was called "linguistics"?....study and developement of language?

well your teacher can be as much arrogant as he wants....a common greek without having spent all his life studying can reconstruct and understand ancient greek better than he does (with a little practise)....sound arrogant enouf,right?

as i said,i m of the opinion that ancient greek sounded much different than modern....however ONLY greek speaking can do the closest recontruction of ancient language (not anybody random guy though)

i m looking forward u sent ssmples of voices if u can record...i can give u the lists to speak the names
also i m looking forward to xlpain with evidence from ancient sources why each thing was pronounced the way that they teach it in your uni....

[Idomeneas]

i dont want to be disrespectful to people that devoted their life in studying my native language, but i cannot understand how somebody can be arrogant and claim he knows everything about a language when he contacts it through books (publiced way after the disputed period) or at best case by random visits in greece. Does that proffessor spend his years travelling in greek space and i do not mean only famous archaeological places or symposiums in athens. I mean visiting small villages, visiting islands and TALK and RECORD people. And most preferably old that retain the local idioms.

Everytime i hear a foreigner, would that be englishman, german, or american academic, speaking ancient greek, they all have a common thing. Their speach does not FLOW. And Greek flows. Its a language with many owls. Its a clear language. Without complex phonetic values. A is A no AE or E. If you listen a good reader, preferably an actor reading ancient you will understand what im talking about.

[Zenith Darksea]

Right, philology is the study of linguistics, but it does quite intimately involve all the other various things that I've said, when you think about it for a moment. I don't think you quite understand what I meant. Firstly, I didn't actually say that he was arrogant. I said that you might think that I was being arrogant by saying what I said.

as i said it depends....if he uses pure erasmian as all westerns do then he is based on erasmos apparently...thats not an ancient source....that makes greek sound as western language

I like that: 'as all Westerns do'. Funny, I never noticed you sitting at the back of our philology lectures... Now really, be reasonable, and don't make sweeping generalisations.

well your teacher can be as much arrogant as he wants....a common greek without having spent all his life studying can reconstruct and understand ancient greek better than he does (with a little practise)....sound arrogant enouf,right?

I don't want to seem confrontational, but I don't think that you know Professor Willi very well. Unless you have been to his philology classes?

Well, I don't know now; perhaps a common Greek without any experience in ancient languages could understand ancient Greek better than a man with a Lic Phil (Basel), Lic Phil (Fribourg) and DPhil (Oxford) in comparative Indo-European grammar and etymology, sociolinguistics in the ancient world, and Greek epigraphic and literary dialectology. I mean, someone who can only speak modern Greek would obviously be so much better. I think that you've perhaps been a little rash and unfair in your statement.

as i said,i m of the opinion that ancient greek sounded much different than modern....however ONLY greek speaking can do the closest recontruction of ancient language (not anybody random guy though)

Er, yeah, that's why we study it. And last time I checked, Professor Willi could speak Greek. And a word about the Greek voice actors we had for Troy Total War - I've heard modern Greek before, and their 'ancient' Greek sound samples were just modern Greek. They even changed some of the vocabulary from ancient to modern Greek! I'm sure however that a Greek can be just as good as anyone else, once he has acquainted himself with ancient phonology.

i m looking forward u sent ssmples of voices if u can record...i can give u the lists to speak the names

Thanks, I'd love to give it a go.

also i m looking forward to xlpain with evidence from ancient sources why each thing was pronounced the way that they teach it in your uni....

Actually, you've got me. We don't have evidence from any ancient sources. They just teach us whatever the hell they like in their lessons. In case you didn't notice, THAT was sarcastic. Alright, if you really want, I'll put a bibliography together, shall I?

i cannot understand how somebody can be arrogant and claim he knows everything about a language when he contacts it through books

I don't think that he claimed that hedoes. But the universities of Basel, Fribourg and Oxford all seem to think that he does. And with all respect, I cannot understand how somebody can be arrogant and claim that he knows everything about an ancient language when he only knows a vastly different modern version of it. Bit of a quid pro quo going here, eh?

Everytime i hear a foreigner, would that be englishman, german, or american academic, speaking ancient greek, they all have a common thing.

Let me stop you here. Much has already been made of how hard it is to know an ancient language because nobody can go back in time and listen to the ancients speak. Let me ask you then, how does a knowledge of what modern Greek sounds like make you the leading expert on ancient phonology?

I just want to end with one last comment. I don't want a confrontation here with you guys. I'll tell you what, you send me some examples of what you need done, I'll give it a shot, and you can use your extensive knowledge of modern... No, sorry, I meant you can use your extensive knowledge of ancient Greek to see whether or not I'm any good. How does that sound?

[Trajan]

Relax guys. This is a good debate on the subject but remember to keep things respectful.