All roads lead to Rome

[cartmen180]

hi all,

i was thinking of doing a little mod myself. I love to play as one of the roman factions and want to make a mod focused on Rome. I don't want to go historical, so no named legions and stuff like that, i want to make my own history.

This is what i want to do:
- Unified Rome
- focus on the roman empire (at first)
- bigger campaign map with more provinces (i like the SPQR one)
- increased movement
- 4 turns a year
- 1 turn recruitment of entire legions in a few cities in italy (like Res Gestae)
- more units
- new traits, new ancilliaries
- reforms:
- polybian reforms: hastati and princeps formed together in a polybian cohort (like in RS2)
- marian reforms: republican cohorts and republican 1st cohorts (like in SPQR)
- imperial reforms: imperial cohorts and imperial 1st cohorts (also like SPQR)
but no named legions, for i want to make my own history, not copy what happened over 2000 years ago.
also i like to represent the reforms by a special building you can build in rome, so you can trigger them whenever you want to (again to take the historical part out of it)
- more money to support more armies

these are the things i would definitely want to put in my mod.
Now i would like to ask for some input from you guys and girls.
what do you think i should add for a better gameplay?

[Valkar]

Camillian reforms?

[cartmen180]

i wouldn't like to go that far back in history, fighting with hoplite units as rome :p

[wlesmana]

How about the ability to trigger your own reforms? Even go back to older reforms like Camillan. You can just a script to trigger adding buildings on all settlements then the reform buildings use this as conditional to be constructed and you recruit the reform units from these buildings. The "trigger" aka. the reform you're choosing can be a "building" in Rome that takes a long time and lots of money to make. Let's say you want to do Marian Reform, just choose "Marian Reform" and "build" it for say, 30 turns. Then once the "building" is done, the script detects it and adds "Marian Reform" building to all settlements. Then military structures can be built based on this Marian reform and you'd get Marian units from there. The reform "buildings" can just be non-battlefield, non-destructible buildings so you can just make the icon on it a symbol of Marian Reform.

What this would create is different playstyles as Romans depending on which reform you chose. The problem I foresee is that you can only choose one reform (well, 2 sort of if you used the engine feature Marian reform and add it on top of your own reform).

I also suggest you use an existing complete mod and make a sub-mod from that.

[cartmen180]

thnx for the reply wlesmana.
i am already harvesting bits and pieces from other mods. I really like the campaign map from spqr. The one from RS2 i find to extend to much to the east. I really like your idea of the reform building with scripting.
Is it possible to make a building a trigger for troops to be trained from a barracks?
example: the camillian reform building will let you train hastati, princeps, triarii and other units from that era.
but when you build the polybian reform building you can only build units from that era.

all this input from you guys out there really helps me figuring out the possibilities for what i intent to do.

[chris10]

thnx for the reply wlesmana.
i am already harvesting bits and pieces from other mods. I really like the campaign map from spqr. The one from RS2 i find to extend to much to the east. I really like your idea of the reform building with scripting.
Is it possible to make a building a trigger for troops to be trained from a barracks?
example: the camillian reform building will let you train hastati, princeps, triarii and other units from that era.
but when you build the polybian reform building you can only build units from that era.
all this input from you guys out there really helps me figuring out the possibilities for what i intent to do.

The new SPQR map is actually from RSII and harvesting things from other mods to use them will not serve you if you have not asked for permission. Any mod using things from other mods without permission will be deleted from TWC.
And what about doing your own stuff ?...I mean starting with harvesting things others have done before is not pretty convincing and If you dont have even a theorietical clue how the different reforms are managed then....well....easier if I copypaste you a section taken from this thread
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=199276
you really should spent the 5 minutes and read it...it will save all of us and you a great deal of time...


Professor420

"So you want to make a mod, eh?"

Let me preface this article by saying, every single gamer on the entire planet has a great idea for a game, or a mod of their favourite game. Their ideas are always superior to all other ideas, and unique to all other ideas. And sometimes, they are. But the ingenuity of an idea, or the greatness of a concept, is irrelevant. What matters, as someone starting the mod, is YOU. YOU will run the mod, fuel it, push it, not the other way around. This is the first fundamental mistake people make. Ideas are worthless, and with few exceptions (Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, etc.,) no one will be as excited about your idea as you are, and you will get no talented recruits based on an idea alone. What matters, is YOU.

Are you able to start a successful mod? Likely not. Have you ever worked on a successful mod before? Have you ever led a mod? Do you currently possess all the skills required to complete your idea (art and coding)? These are vital questions that most people do not ask themselves when they start a mod. Because, honestly, its depressing. But they are questions that hold true, in example after example. Now, it will be very easy to ignore this advice. There is nothing to stop you from posting it anyway and looking for team members. So let me try to convince you why it is in your best interest to not start your glorious mod idea.

• Is your idea REALLY that good? World War II/III? Comon. Deadly virus outbreak? Comon... Post-apocalypse? Warcraft? Generic fantasy? No matter how good, and how nuanced, your idea is, on the surface, it is extremely generic. ALL ideas are, there are very few 'original' ideas. And if you think yours is original, it is likely because you do not have enough experience as a designer. On the other hand, all ideas are unique. But the unique aspect is always second to the generic aspect, until you create something so people take more time to peer into your concept.
• Is your idea copyrighted? Is it based on Star Wards, Lord of the Rings, Wheel of Time, etc? I don't give a care to intellectual property infringement as far as mods/nonprofits go. But if you do not possess the skills to start a mod otherwise, what gives you the right to start a mod based on a pop-culture concept? Leave it to the experienced people to start the mod, then you can work on your favourite franchise, and learn, at the same time. Starting a mod based on these franchises takes zero skill, and even less originality. Just because you will automatically attract more talented people, does not mean the mod will be healthy. YOU will be its initial driving force, and if you aren't able to drive, you are going to steer the ship off course or crash it entirely.
• What will you do? Unless you are able to produce assets of production quality, or have a good amount of coding knowledge to implement the mod's important features, you don't serve a purpose. You hold no practical power or authority as the founder, as the leader, as the manager, "web-guy," or designer. I have met only a handful of skilled designers, and I have never met a designer that formed the team and led it. Design is an auxiliary role, and if designers are leaders, it is because they have inherited a team, are extremely skilled and respected at what they do, and the team has proven they can get things accomplished beyond design.
• Can you create a decent product if you are by yourself? For artists, this means, can you create enough art to push the mod past the starting line, and after that, most of the art for the entire mod? For coders, this means, can you set up the gameplay systems and features on your own, as the only coder? Things such as maps, sound, design, etc., are auxiliary, and do not create an entire mod in and of themselves.
• What do you have to gain from starting a mod? Are there any other mods similar to yours? Why not join one of these mods, to contribute to a product, develop your skills, and aid others? If your mod is "Dinosaurs vs. Smurfs," your concept is likely too unique to find another mod similar enough to be interested, but on the other hand, too unique to find anyone with a similar interest or passion to help you with the mod. As I said before, ideas mean nothing. If you can do the work, you can make people excited for your Dinosaur/Smurf game.
• If you had your dream skills, would you be content working at the whim, or even at the same level, as the former-you? Why would anyone who possesses great skills work for/under someone who lacks any real skills? Do not expect to find people much more talented than yourself. And do not expect them to work on your project. They will often naturally come along to 'pop culture' projects such as Star Wars or Lord of the Rings, but it is highly unlikely a skilled artist will sign up for a mod that has skins made in MSPaint.
• Finally: You need skills to make games. A lot of skills. Mad skillz. You are much better served spending your time learning and 'doing,' rather than struggling to create your own team. Then, once you've blossomed, you can start your own project will experience, confidence, and skills. If you lack the fortitude to invest the time required to build your skills, you will never be able to create your own mod. And I hope, after reading this, you won't think you can convince other people to make your mod for you.

Professor420




.

[cartmen180]

The new SPQR map is actually from RSII and harvesting things from other mods to use them will not serve you if you have not asked for permission. Any mod using things from other mods without permission will be deleted from TWC.
And what about doing your own stuff ?...I mean starting with harvesting things others have done before is not pretty convincing and If you dont have even a theorietical clue how the different reforms are managed then....well....easier if I copypaste you a section taken from this thread
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=199276
you really should spent the 5 minutes and read it...it will save all of us and you a great deal of time...
.

i am looking around for what i like and what is nice to use, when i decide i would like to use this in my mod then i will ask for permission from the guy who owns it. It is a big waist of time when i create something myself when it is already out there ^^


wlesmana,

when i play spqr mod and i reach the marian reforms i can train republican cohorts, when i upgrade the barracks i can train imperial, but republicans not anymore? how does that work? Because the imperial guys replace the republicans, i thought it would be similiar to replace hastati/principes with polybian cohorts.

You told me in an other post that is it possible when i create a building in rome, i can use the script so that building pops up in all the other settlements i own. Is it also possible to destroy buildings?
example: i build the polybian reforms in rome, this triggers the script to build this everywhere else. It then also destroys the camillian barracks and replaces it with the polybian barracks.
Is that possible to do with the script? I am going to read some tutorials on scripting right now, see what i can figure out.

thnx for all the help

*edit*
i have taken a look at the export_desc_buildings.txt from spqr. If i upgrade a building to the next level i can let units out, for example the hastati and princeps. So my question here is, can i make a building a conditional for another building --> polybian reforms are needed to upgrade the camillian barracks to the polybian barracks.

[cartmen180]

i feel it is time for a building lay out that is in my mind ^^
(numbers behind units stands for experience)

camillian reforms:
-training ground; recruitable: hastati and princeps
-barracks; recruitable: hastati 1, princeps 1 and triarii
-city barracks; recruitable: hastati 2, princeps 2 and triarii 1

polybian reforms:
-provincial barracks; recruitable: polybian cohort and triarii 2
-polybian barracks; recruitable: polybian cohort 1 and triarii 3

marian reforms:
-legionary barracks 1*; recruitable: republican cohort and republican 1st cohort 1
-legionary barracks 2; recruitable: republican cohort 1 and republican 1st cohort 2
-legionary barracks 3; recruitable: republican cohort 2 and republican 1st cohort 3

-auxillia barracks 1; recruitable: spear auxillia and light auxillia
-auxillia barracks 2; recruitable: spear auxillia 1, sword auxillia and light auxillia 1
-auxillia barracks 3**; recruitable: spear auxillia 2, sword auxillia 1, light auxillia 2 and archer auxillia

imperial reforms:
-legionary barracks 4***; recruitable: imperial cohort 2 and imperial 1st cohort 3
(auxillia barracks stay with the imperial reforms)

*must have: armourer, citizenship and marian reforms
**must have: archery range
***must have: foundry, citizenship and imperial reforms

[wlesmana]

I don't know how they do it in SPQR (been a long time since I played it) but EACH building has a list of units they can train. So even upgraded buildings may have a different set of units recruitable. Marian Reform feature is the only one enabling you to recruit or restrict recruitment from the same building as it works like a resource/hidden_resource.

You can add a building to any settlement through script but you cannot completely destroy them. You can only damage them 100% at which you cannot recruit units there but any player and AI can just repair them. It is possible to keep the script running and damage them 100% at the start of every turn but this would make them into a money sink for the AI while you could warn players about this.

Having multiple reforms are tricky if you're trying to enable the player to switch between them mid-game. Any system will be far from ideal and will require heavy scripting. Your best bet is to let the player only choose a reform ONCE, then another one after that you can use the 'marian reform' feature from the engine.

[wlesmana]

thnx for the reply wlesmana.
i am already harvesting bits and pieces from other mods. I really like the campaign map from spqr. The one from RS2 i find to extend to much to the east. I really like your idea of the reform building with scripting.
Is it possible to make a building a trigger for troops to be trained from a barracks?
example: the camillian reform building will let you train hastati, princeps, triarii and other units from that era.
but when you build the polybian reform building you can only build units from that era.

Here are some basic rules of the hardcode you must work with:
- Units are trained from a "building", as in something that must exist in a settlement
- Buildings that have units trainable will ALWAYS have that unit trainable as long as that building exist
- It is possible to make a series of buildings occupy the same slot whereas building one of them will forbid you from building the others, for instance: the temples
- Only the Marian reform feature by the engine can forbid and enable units within the same building
- You can make resource and hidden_resource as conditional for recruiting units BUT not the existence of a building or you will get a CTD
- Scripts are a fickle thing and must be loaded every time you load a saved game

So in regards to your question: if you wanted it simple, yes, it's possible. You can make the player to destroy the Camillan building and replace it with Polybian one. For instance, you can create a "building" called "Polybian Reform" which is a conditional for your Polybian Barrack that must be rebuilt after you destroy the Camillan Barrack. You cannot use the same Barrack building because there will be nothing limiting the Camillan units from being created.

You should research the Complete EDB thread. Since what you're modding is a new feature, this will be harder and more stressful than just a simple models/visual mod.