Examples of how MTW battle AI is better please

[Destraex]

I used to play a little Medieval Total War back in the day and have recently reinstalled it for this mod.
A lot of people say that MTWs battle AI was better, I want proof though as the AI in MTW is different but I have not been able to see how it is better yet due to the fact that I have only played a quick MTW game recently.

In that game half the enemy army his in the trees while the other half charged me WTF? How is that good.

[RZZZA]

Do you have either the BKB or the XL mod installed?

[Destraex]

no its just plain vanilla.

[Cain The Kohan]

Well in MTW-VI AI always trys to take better ground.
I think that AI on battle map isnt really much better than in RTW, but because its easier for AI to play strategic part that makes bettles more of a challenge than in RTW (when AI attacks in MTW attacks in numbers when in RTW we see many small armys).

[The White Knight]

Generally, MTW(VI) is harder then RTW because in RTW, stats aren't well balanced. The morale etc... seems to be much higher then in RTW.

I've also seen the MTW-AI lay a pretty smart ambush, something I've never seen happening in RTW. I had no spies in the region I invaded, so I didn't now how his army looked like. When on the battlefield I saw his general to the west, and his main force to the east. My idea was to crush the general with my heavy cavalry and engage the main forces with my infantry. However, when I engaged the general, many infantry came out of the small wood next to the general, and annihilated my heavy cavalry, while my infantry was fighting the -as it appeared- small west-situated part of his army.

Could you ever imagine this in RTW? lol

[militiaman]

I haven't played much of MTW (eeek, graphics) but in one of the few battles I had they acted pretty smart. I attacked the Welsh who had a few units of longbows and spearmen, and I had a Royal Bodyguard with some archers and spearmen. In terms of strength the battle was about even, so in any normal battle in RTW I think I could taken on the longbows with the general's unit, and pinned down some of the spearmen with my own finishing with a flank from my general.

However in the actual battle, they used the terrain to their avantage and got atop a hill and shot my men to pieces, causing me to do a reckless charge which resulted in a full scale rout. So judging on that one battle I personally think the AI was much better.

[Shaun]

The battle AI in MTW wasnt that much better than in RTW, but in where as in RTW Legionarres will always beat , say, light cav, in MTW there was a bit more randomness to it, like a unit of knights wood nearly always beat a unit of men at arms, but sometimes the men at arms wood win, and that was what made it harder, not better AI, it was just a bit more random.
And the Campaign map AI was much better in MTW than in RTW, but BI has made the camp AI a bit better.

[The White Knight]

The battle AI in MTW wasnt that much better than in RTW, but in where as in RTW Legionarres will always beat , say, light cav, in MTW there was a bit more randomness to it, like a unit of knights wood nearly always beat a unit of men at arms, but sometimes the men at arms wood win, and that was what made it harder, not better AI, it was just a bit more random.
And the Campaign map AI was much better in MTW than in RTW, but BI has made the camp AI a bit better.

I don't agree on the campaign-map AI. The MTW campaign AI was rather simplistic, not that it didn't offer a superb challenge, but it's just the way the campaign works really. I still feel as if RTW's campaign-AI is MTW's campaign-AI lost in a big 3d world. In MTW it would just invade the most empty province (garrison-wise) etc.... the AI would have to consider much less possibilities. (With the whole board-style campaign.)

[Shaun]

I don't agree on the campaign-map AI. The MTW campaign AI was rather simplistic, not that it didn't offer a superb challenge, but it's just the way the campaign works really. I still feel as if RTW's campaign-AI is MTW's campaign-AI lost in a big 3d world. In MTW it would just invade the most empty province (garrison-wise) etc.... the AI would have to consider much less possibilities. (With the whole board-style campaign.)

I know, exactly!!
The MTW AI wood go for the easiest provs, where as the RTW AI seems to choose a prov at random and go for it, even if the prov had a huge garrison. The reason for MTW AI beingmore of a challenge than RTW AI is because it was simplisitc, It wood go for undefended provs ovver a heavily garrisoned prov, it wood invade over seas. RTW AI isnt so simplistic, but it isnt smart enough to actually do smart things.

[big_feef]

To the poeple who say that MTW's battle AI isn't smart... try playing on Hard or Expert. On Expert, I've never had an easy battle unless I grossly outnumber or outpower the opposition; and they would only go to the battle if they couldn't retreat (no nearby territories to retreat to or no forts in the current territory). All the other times, the AI would hide their forces, chose higher ground, etc; all the dirty little tricks you would pull on the opposition, they pull on you.

The battles aren't impossible, they just aren't the 'charge infantry with heavy cavalry, attack cavalry with spearmen, nail all with archers' strategy fests that seems to pervade RTW battles. If you do not strategically place your forces, and strategically attack the enemy; there's a very high chance you'll get gutted.

[God-Emperor of Mankind]

To the poeple who say that MTW's battle AI isn't smart... try playing on Hard or Expert.

The AI isn't smarter on hard or expert.
It just get more bonuses just like it does in RTW.
It doesn't get any smarter.

Personally the AI is just as smart in RTW as it is in MTW and something tells me that the AI is in fact the same.
Unfortunately RTW is bigger then MTW so the AI couldn't handle it in the beginning but it is fixed now.
The AI in MTW always goes for higher grounds, so does the AI in RTW and neither can use it properly.
The AI in MTW and RTW both hide units in the woods however it isn't planned, the woods just happened to be there.

But as White knight said, MTW was more balanced in the vanilla version then RTW was so the AI was abit more stubborn then they were in RTW but luckily there are mods such as Darthmod and EB that balanced things out so the AI is tough.

[big_feef]

The AI isn't smarter on hard or expert.
It just get more bonuses just like it does in RTW.
It doesn't get any smarter.

Er, it is smarter... the game is designed that way. On normal, and worse on easy, the MTW AI will not try to ambush you, hide their forces, seek higher ground, or try to flank or encircle you. They do all of those on Expert and get valour and morale bonuses against the player.

You really should play MTW more and see the huge difference difficulty makes in the battles. If you're not careful in those Expert battles, you will get gutted like a pig; armoured or unarmoured.

[God-Emperor of Mankind]

Er, it is smarter... the game is designed that way. On normal, and worse on easy, the MTW AI will not try to ambush you, hide their forces, seek higher ground, or try to flank or encircle you. They do all of those on Expert and get valour and morale bonuses against the player.

You really should play MTW more and see the huge difference difficulty makes in the battles. If you're not careful in those Expert battles, you will get gutted like a pig; armoured or unarmoured.

No, it isn't smarter. This has been confirmed along time ago.
They seek higher ground, ambush,hide and all that on easy as well.
Higher difficulty means more bonuses for AI only.
I got MTW+VI the day it got out and played it well almost till RTW got out so I have played enough MTW.

[Maethius]

For me fighting MTW battles, against the ods and sometimes on even terms, was on many occasions close to disaster. My loses were always heavy! Winning in Rome is never that close to disaster or with, quite, so large losses. Perhaps one or two times have i had 35% battle casualties.

[Atterdag]

I haven't played that much lately (graphics..), but when I do I always command my army personally (resulting in severe casualties).
Both the campaign and battlefield AI, are IMO experience much better. In RTW I never suffered a catastrofical defeat, but in MTW...

I've also seen the MTW-AI lay a pretty smart ambush

That's happened soo many times for me. Never got the way to tackle a sudden ambush. I tend to panick .

[Destraex]

Are you sure severe casualties does not = AI stat bonus; rather than better AI?

For those that are talking about the campaign map I am not interested in this, I am talking about the battle\tactical maps.

[Kscott]

I believe the AI is almost exactly the same, however in MTW it had much less to worry about...

[Destraex]

what evidence do you have Kscott?

[Space Voyager]

what evidence do you have Kscott?

What evidence do you need? Simply look at the strategic part of the MTW and RTW and you'll see a HUGE strain on the AI that was added in RTW. Did you need to move your army and take care on what terrain it was at the end of the turn? How many turns did it take to get to get to the neighbouring region? Did the AI need to plan such a move and coordinate it with the known movements of other armies it knew about?

There was no strategy in MTW to speak of other than who to attack and in which region - if you don't count the diplomacy which was even more lacking than in RTW. In RTW you actually MOVE the armies along the roads, not just jump from one region to another. You (sometimes) need to plan the arrival and coordinate it with other factors in the game. The AI needs to do it as well.

[Destraex]

Space Voyager

"For those that are talking about the campaign map I am not interested in this, I am talking about the battle\tactical maps."