What are the most important differences between 6.3 and vanilla?

[PaleBlueDot]

Although I have spent a decent amount of time playing m2tw, I have never tried mods before. I find it hard to get any coherent list of important changes between Vanilla and SS 6.3. The only way I found is to read through every changelog for every version, which I have never tried. The reason for this is that the update tells more about the changes from previous versions, rather than from vanilla, expecting me to have read all the previous ones.

The first problem I encounter is the incredibly long list of changes, information overload. Some of it just goes back and forth, like Ireland being added then removed. Other parts, such as obscure bug fixes aren't really relevant.

The second problem is that changelog often doesn't go into depth. OK, so these units are "more balanced", in what sense exactly? Is religion more important? how so?
I think I remember somewhere something about taking capitals being more important than in vanilla, but I dont remember which version that change was from.

Bottom line: I would love for there to be an updated and rather specific list of the more important changes, making it easier to adjust from vanilla to latest version of SS, rather than from the previous version.
If not, any ad hoc explanations would be great. Why are all archer missile stats so low, especially the weaker ones like Norse Archers? Is there something that weights up against this, such as increased accuracy? Or is it to make it more realistic (as the actual norse archers were famously weak and could not really disable any enemy with less than several direct hits?)
Anything else I really should know about, having read a few changelogs and read around some, but way too frequently discover massige knowledge gaps?

EDIT:
Also, I would love an updated high-res map of the whole 6.3 world, with cities/regions for strategic planning. Not found any yet...

[Ichon]

Well first most obvious changes are the map size and number of factions. Obviously more of both.

Gameplay changes are more difficult to write about because I haven't played vanilla in so long and never did much anyway before moving to mods.

First is that speeds of units are a bit different and cavalry are a bit stronger in general while archers are a bit weaker. Archers can still decimate enemy if you have good quality archers or use your archers in the right position(top of a hill, walls, etc). In vanilla almost any cavalry could charge and there weren't extreme differences in most units though some were obviously better. Now some cavalry has more specific functions and is not always the best to use in a charge. Heavy cavalry obviously has the best charge but there are some cavalry that have lower charge but AP weapons so they can decimate other heavy cavalry in melee. Light cavalry is usually skirmishers but there are still some light cavalry that are effective in a charge- just don't expect them to survive long in melee.

I remember most vanilla battles being a relative bloodbath as most units had lower armor and archers hit much harder. Its possible now to defeat numerically superior forces with a few key units and good positioning though bloodbaths can still easily happen.

Build tree have had some changes as well with highest level units taking longer to get compared to vanilla but it makes you notice the relative strengths of units much more and gives more of the feel of having to know your own weakness as much as strengths.

Most factions have had many unique units added and stats adjusted as well as the timeline changed so you see more variety in a long campaign starting in 1100 and playing past gunpowder.

6.3 also has RR/RC included which is a big change from vanilla in that you can't recruit units as quickly and not every faction has the same amount of units available. So you will tend to see France have more knights in its armies and England have more archers for example.

Elite units now take several turns to become available to recruit to reflect that elites were always in small numbers in any culture as the labor to support that heavy specialization required a high ratio.

Probably some other small changes as well but those are the most important that I can remember.

There is also a huge list of submods that make specific changes in some ways or other.

BGR is probably the one which makes the most noticeable changes for SS and you definitely need to read the FAQ to figure out what is going on as it attempts to make many more realistic changes to how the economy and centralization of political power are portrayed.

[Smokey Bacon]

Pure awesomeness.

[Amaranth]

I can't even begin to list them.. But this post in my opinion, gives the most straight forward answer:

Pure awesomeness.

[PaleBlueDot]

Awesome, thanks!

So nothing very special about taking capitals then, as opposed to other cities? Apart from their size?

How come there are units shown under certain factions in "custom battles" that I can´t find on the campaign map/building browser? F.eg the basic unit "Archers" for Norway (I only find the weaker Norse Archer and Levy archer). If Norway doesnt have it, why is it there? And what is up with that huge amount of non-norwegian units from all over the world at the bottom of the unit list?

Can i recruit mercs, or otherwise non-native units, and have them retrained? F.eg finding some awesome unit in England and bringing it back home? If so, and if it can be retrained, can it only be retrained where i recruited it? (I disabled the advanced recruitment option thing so I wont have to micromanage too much and plan to carefully in order to get my favourite units)

[vtec.dominion]

I would say its like driving tuner WRC Lancer Evo instead Ford Escort 1.3 LOL!
Guess which one is real FUN, huh ?

[Ichon]

You can retrain mercenaries only in the region you recruited them and if there are enough available. Often there won't be for a few turns.

Some factions have unique units that replace standard units in their AOR but the standard units show up in custom battles.

[Meneth]

I disabled the advanced recruitment option thing so I wont have to micromanage too much and plan to carefully in order to get my favourite units

Disabling RR is broken. It makes several units never appear.
Download the Fixes (link in my signature). Little micromanagement is required with RR, though. You just have to wait a while for some units to become available.
I recommend you give it a try, and if you find you don't like it you can download the NoWaiting sub-mod which is pretty much what DisableRR was supposed to be.

[Asterix]

the game is much more historically accurate, in-depth, realistic, somewhat harder, new factions, new and improved units, has a bajillion sub-mods to further enhance gameplay, better units are more difficult to get (but are more worth it), and a bunch of other things that make it awesome. Bottom line: SS 6.3 is 1000 times better than vanilla M2TW. download it nooow.
Its fairly easy to adjust from vanilla to SS 6.3. its not like a RTW mod which is a whole new game, rather SS 6.3 is much easier to adjust to.
Hope this helps.

[Lugiahua]

more depth in unit difference
eg:

In Vanilla you can defeat late era knights easily with enough militia
In SS it is still possible, but you will certainly suffer very high losses.

[JorisofHolland]

- Money is something of a problem unless you know what to do.

- You can't conquer the world from horseback in 5 turns, it will take considerably more time.

- The AI will have more troops and much more money. Some call this 'cheating AI', but really, without it even the improved AI wouldn't stand a change.

- Nothing will stand before a charge of knights, except late era pikemen.

- Units like Pike Militia, Halberds, Gothic Knights, etc all cannot be recruited untill the 'time is there' and history shows they were there.

[Smokey Bacon]

Thanks for the +rep you two lol.

[PaleBlueDot]

So I cant disable RR, or I can as long as I also install the fixes? I tried to re-run setup and play a bit with RR, but didn´t really notice any difference. The unit "archers" was still unavailable to Norway, even though it showed up in custom games.

Is there any way of knowing when different units will be available (with RR)? I always plan my games based on what units I can get. If my strategy is based on a particular strong crossbow, combined with a certain cavalry unit and some pike unit, I cant just wait around for dozens or hundreds of turns for those units to become available, or I get terribly bored.

Also, is there any list over all of units that will become available to your faction at all in 6.3? In vanilla, I used the "custom game" list, but in SS that is full of units that I apparently cant a get hold on.

Thanks very much for all the help so far. Total war is the most brilliant game ever invented. I love the thrill of winning battles 10:1 with equal army strength, which is why I plan what units to use in detail before starting a campaign.

[PerXX]

While made for the 6.2 RR/RC compilation, and still a WiP, check THIS for what you need. It does state the units available, as well as when and from which building. The only thing it doesn't state is if the unit is an AoR unit, and if so, where it's recruitable. Usually though, that'd be that factions native lands.

[PaleBlueDot]

If I understand correctly, the page shows units available to a faction, and when they can be bought. But it claims that both Billmen and Longbowmen only will be available after 12-1300. How come the english keep attacking me with them? Im in 1142. I ran setup again and un-disabled Real Recruitment. Is the list simply out of date, or have I misunderstood something?
(And what is an AoR unit?)

[Ichon]

If I understand correctly, the page shows units available to a faction, and when they can be bought. But it claims that both Billmen and Longbowmen only will be available after 12-1300. How come the english keep attacking me with them? Im in 1142. I ran setup again and un-disabled Real Recruitment. Is the list simply out of date, or have I misunderstood something?
(And what is an AoR unit?)

AoR = Area of Recruitment... usually just a term to describe local area for some cultural unit that is not tied to a factions build tree so that it can be built anywhere they gain regions.

Are you sure it is longbowmen? They might have some in their starting armies but typically you'll see archer militia and other types of archers until the event date. So if they start with 6 units of Longbowmen in their starting armies they can't build more until the date but if you fight 6 armies they might have 1 each army plus other types of archers.

[PaleBlueDot]

I have defended a castle in England against more than 6 full enemy stacks, many of them consisting of about 50% longbowmen, several times killing my king with arrows.Pretty impressive to have many dozen longbowmen in a starting army.
Luckily they suck at taking castles. Maybe the re-enabling RR was bugged as well. Ill try again.
Either way, I much prefer being able to recruit all units from the beginning. My games never last long enough to get the later units. If im not master of the world before noon, I usually try a different faction.

[PerXX]

Sounds like something went wrong with the RR re/dis-abling. Did you start a new game after the swap?

Either way, I much prefer being able to recruit all units from the beginning. My games never last long enough to get the later units. If im not master of the world before noon, I usually try a different faction.

Then this submod is what you want

[SirRobin]

I can't recognize many of the supposed changes and improvements people claim in this thread.

For example, "nothing will stand against a charge of knights except pikemen" - well, that's not what I'm seeing in my games (I'm playing 6.2) where most types of medium spearmen can stop and hold heavy cavalry quite well.

Archers deadly on walls? No. SS doesn't fix the old parapet bug that prevents most of the archers from even firing their bows.


To answer the original poster, the main differences are:

• Cheating AI with near endless money, leading to 1-province kingdoms fielding full stacks.
• Choice of three different strategic AI models - different aggressiveness levels
• Real Recruitment added, making your armies better balanced with few professional troops in addition to many spearmen
• Nice new castle models for the strategic map
• Fixed some traits bugs, for example princesses in vanilla hardly ever have more than 3 points of charm due to their triggers being bugged.
• The Americas removed, rest of the map improved in size and detail
• Some new units, effects that you may or may not like depending on your preferences. For instance, I don't like the huge blood puff that appears each time a soldier is struck by an arrow (even if he survives)

That's about it, as far as I can see. SS is better than Vanilla, but not hugely so. The mod fixes some of the minor annoyances from the original game, but all the real annoying stuff unfortunately remains, despite the best efforts of a lot of talented people on these boards.

[bɑne]

Cheating AI - that can be made more passive depending on choice of AI model

Vanilla AI wasn't? Or what are you refering to?