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  1. #1

    Default The Scythian armour

    I wrote some information about the Scythians in 5th cent. BC:

    Although literary evidence is not too good, we have plenty of archaeological founds made by Soviet, Russian and Ukraine excavators giving us a precise picture of the Scythians.

    The Scythians primary used armoured versions of their everyday clothing for protection in battle. In the Middle east they had learned about the scale mail and reinforced their cloths that way. Consequently the armour was very individual. Most usual was the scale mail tunic with short or long sleeves. The shield was made of wicker and leather reinforced with scale mail being round or crescent shaped. A scale enforced broad belt for the scabbard protected the hips. Even the helmets were nothing but the armored baslyk – the typical Scythian headdress, although a bronze helmet called Cuban-type existed. The material of the scales was primary iron, seldom bronze. Rich nobles covered the iron scales with gold.
    During the 5th century they again reinforced their scale mail tunics with shoulder flaps similar to the Greeks’ Linothorax, but often it was simply a double layer of scales on the shoulders. At the same time, other Greek equipment came in use due to the contact with the Greek colonies. Corinthian, Illyrian and Chalcidian helmets were found as well as many shin guards. These Greek armour parts did not replace the Scythian’s scale mail protectors at all, but existed at the same time, although we have to assume that the high nobility preferred Greek weapons.
    Also, a new type of shield replaced the older types this time. It is some kind of wing shaped shield, placed on the back of the rider with a hitch and strapped on the arms, so that the rider could use both hands for weapons but also control the shield. Due to the shape and position of the shield it had aerodynamical features, which made it easier to carry. The material was wicker, leather and scale mail again.

    The horses were armored, too, but rather lightly with horse head protector and some chest armor.

    In attack they primary used the bow. It had enormous power and range (up to 500m!, but that is not combat range), while the arrows’ tips could penetrate bronze armor easily, they were often poisoned. Thanks to Pliny and Aristotle we are quite aware of what the “Skythikon Toxikon” was made and how it worked. It enforced tetanus, dissolved blood corpuscles and could cause shock and respiratory paralysis. The Scythians used a Gorytos, which was richly decorated and
    The bow was primary weapon, but lances were also important. Most had a length of 1,7-2m and were quite similar to the hoplites’ dorata. They could be thrown on short distance but they were rather used in close combat. Few longer lances being 3m long were found, too, but that probably is a later development when facing the Sarmatians.
    Most important sidearm was the dagger or sword (the main difference is the length, which often varied). The most usual length of the swords were 50-60cm, longer swords were found. The scabbards were extremely rich decorated. More seldom was a battle axe, about 80 axes were found compared to 450 swords and daggers.


    Using the founds of the Warrior tomb of Gladkovscina (Ukraine) as a base, Alexandr Minzulin reconstructed a 5th cent. BC Scythian warrior, which you all know…



    Here the famous Solocha-Kurgan’s comb.



    A Scythian axe


    A Scythian horse head protector



    Another graphical reconstruction by Michail Gorelik (not Osprey):



    Some reads:

    Cernenko, E.V.: Skifskie luciniki, Kiev 1981 [The Scythian bow]
    Cernenko, E.V.: Eisengepanzerte “Ritter” der skythischen Steppe, in: Gold der Steppe, Schleswig 1991 [Iron armoured “Knights” of the Scythian Steppe]
    Cernenko, E.V./Gorelik, M.V.: The Scythians 700-300BC (= Osprey Men-at-Arms 1937)
    Minzulin, A.I.: Zascitnoe vooruzenie voina-lucnika V-IV vv do n.e. iz kurgana u. sel. Gladkovscina, in: Sovetskaja Archeologija 4 (1988) [Armor of a 5th-4th cent. BC Archer on the basis of the Gladkovscina kurgan]

  2. #2

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    hi Flieger!

    the plan is to have only 2 scythian/sakai units (which havent been done yet)
    one on foot,one mounted,both with bows,one with sword or axe,other with spear

    thanks for the good info
    what about the kyrbasia head cover?
    also since we have no scythian faction (and no scythian provinces in the map) its kind of difficult to have their nobles and variety of troops...also there were several scythian tribes all around euxeinos pontos but we must stay to a general unit only

    we will have 2 units belonging to persian campaigns armies (maybe from the beggining of game too) and available as mercs here and there...when invading armies will be generated to present the campaigns against Hellas then sakai will be there and indeed its an important unit since in all battles were present and fighting near the persian as great warriors they were and also excelled many times (and they also were used later as mercs and "police" from athenians)

    but also there will be a thracian getai hippotoxotai unit both recruitable and hired as merc available in northern thracian provinces,which look something between scythians and thracian outfit...
    those lads were usually used as mercs and also used from odryssian kingdom as well

    i believe those lads are scythians depicted here,yes?
    http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/6025/scyth4rh.jpg
    http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/4650/sc9pj.jpg

    ....something i would like to ask is where are reasonable places (see our campaign map) that they could be available to be hired as mercs?
    ...but innocence was lost long ago

  3. #3

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    The man on the vase is for sure a Scythian, but I can’t tell exactly about the men on the relief. They could be Scythians.
    "Kyrbasia" is the Greek name for the Baslyk, it is the same thing.

    Seeing the campaign map, I don't think there is a very good place, where they could be hired as mercenaries. The European northern part of the Black sea maybe... the core country of the Scythians was the Pontic steppe this time, but they often made incursions to the south.

    The Scythians had some notable influence on Greek history and their nobles look really cool with their "wing-shields" on the back, so I think it would be a pity if they were not included. Moreover, the density of the armour founds in the Pontic steppe is very, very high. There must have been a lot of armoured cavalry around.
    On the other hand, your campaign map does not offer any places, where they lived, that is true.

  4. #4

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    Well thats much better than RTR sarmatian (duh they suck). I would like to see that spear and cavalry unit made, it would be cool.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by FliegerAD
    The man on the vase is for sure a Scythian, but I can’t tell exactly about the men on the relief. They could be Scythians.
    "Kyrbasia" is the Greek name for the Baslyk, it is the same thing.

    Seeing the campaign map, I don't think there is a very good place, where they could be hired as mercenaries. The European northern part of the Black sea maybe... the core country of the Scythians was the Pontic steppe this time, but they often made incursions to the south.

    The Scythians had some notable influence on Greek history and their nobles look really cool with their "wing-shields" on the back, so I think it would be a pity if they were not included. Moreover, the density of the armour founds in the Pontic steppe is very, very high. There must have been a lot of armoured cavalry around.
    On the other hand, your campaign map does not offer any places, where they lived, that is true.
    scale armour will be there for the mounted units probable
    for the shield i didnt know about,however if this is correct then the modelers can do it i guess
    but the non mounted ones,i dont think they need armour esp if they fight for persians
    the getai horsearchers also should be lighter than an armoured unit

    the second picture is from persian origin
    the other is from greek depiction

    maybe i assume that the Scythian tribes who lived near persians or in territories controlled by persians,they could look somewhat different from those greeks were in some contact

    about areas to be hired as mercs....
    i think we have to put them in a few areas (like the northern thrace or pontos/kappadocia so someone can hire them so that they have another reference than appear in persian invading army (because as faction unit recruited everywhere for persians,then it will make no sense)
    anyway those had invaded many places far away from their homes like asia minor even down to palestine

    btw i dont quite understand in what terms the scythians were important for greek history other than some trade and the usual contact through colonies....
    i wouldnt say that they were appreciated more than other non greeks were
    with the exception of their noble anacharsis who was by trick included in the sages of antiquity for political reasons because some greeks disliked periandros and the other tyrants who are the true sages

    but anacharsis was a unique scythian and there was a great gap between him and the other Scythians
    and for that can speak his own end
    ...but innocence was lost long ago

  6. #6

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    Well, we have depictions of this shield as well as the actual remains of it... I'd say that is damn good evidence.
    I don't know much about the foot men, so I leave that up to you. But from my point of view, there is not much doubt, if any, how the armoured Skythian mounted nobles looked like. The density of the armour founds is very high in the Pontic steppe.

    Concerning the men on the relief... I could give you a detailled who is who with the help of Walser: Die Völkerschaften auf dem Reliefs von Persepolis (The Peoples depicted on the Persepolis reliefs), but even without looking I can tell you, that there is not a single armoured man depicted, because it depicts embassies, who are of course not in battle dress.

    The main difference between the Scythians near the Greeks and the Scythians near the Persians is their armor, the first being influenced by the Greek arms and armour as I already said, while the other even more relied on scale armour.

    Hope this helps you a bit.

  7. #7
    Maethius's Avatar Centenarius
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    Looks interesting!
    Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime---Hemingway

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    "Not if you do it during one and the same battle"---Sgt. Colon

  8. #8
    webbird's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: The Scythian armour

    i think the solocha kurgan comb is very interresting because my first interpretation of the scene would be,
    there is maybe thracian cavalry shown, because of the crescent-moon shape shield and the helmet which is also shown on thracian pottery. And it seems that the thracians had much contacts with they scythian/sarmatian neighbors and also have a long tradition of cavalry warefare.
    Even after a second close look, that`s an extreme mixture of thracian and scythian elements in that artwork.

    But the best is the drawing, i have some expierience with bows and i like to see the man who is able to draw a powerful bow like the scythian composite with such a fancy grip *lol*
    Last edited by webbird; July 13, 2006 at 05:25 PM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: The Scythian armour

    Quote Originally Posted by webbird
    i think the solocha kurgan comb is very interresting because my first interpretation of the scene would be,
    there is maybe thracian cavalry shown, because of the crescent-moon shape shield and the helmet which is also shown on thracian pottery. And it seems that the thracians had much contacts with they scythian/sarmatian neighbors and also have a long tradition of cavalry warefare.
    Even after a second close look, that`s an extreme mixture of thracian and scythian elements in that artwork.

    But the best is the drawing, i have some expierience with bows and i like to see the man who is able to draw a powerful bow like the scythian composite with such a fancy grip *lol*
    I noticed that bow too, its tiny, like a kid's training bow you might see at a camp


    Believe in Hegemonia... Or the Megarian will get you.

  10. #10

    Default Re: The Scythian armour

    Oh, the size of the bow is not that much of the mark. The drawing of the bow is indeed ridiculous, but Gorelik is an authority on Skythians, not on archery.
    Hey webbird, if you have experiences in archery, you'll laugh even more about that drawing when I tell you the draw-weights of Skythian bows. 80-120lbs! Can you imagine that? Most men could hardly use such a bow. That illustrates the enormous power of the Skythian bows.
    Ρέζου λογίου πελάτης (Client of the eloquent Rez)

  11. #11

    Default Re: The Scythian armour

    No but the way he's drawing it looks like a kid would, daintily.


    Believe in Hegemonia... Or the Megarian will get you.

  12. #12
    webbird's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: The Scythian armour

    my bow was 35 kg draw-weight, but i dont like to go with it in a thousends of men battlefield and for sure it would be impossible for me to hit some targets from horseback, even if the pony walks slowly *lol* It´s realy impressive how much skill and power they had.

    btw., it`s not that difficult to create an rider like on the comb detail, but do we like to have a unit which has moved his helmet into the neck because he can not realy see and fight with it ?


  13. #13

    Default Re: The Scythian armour

    We have several hoplites like that, I have a very good model for it.


    Believe in Hegemonia... Or the Megarian will get you.

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