Catholic, Orthodox, or Muslim?

[Asterix]

All right, i've decided to create another poll. i am interested in knowing what type factions people prefer to play as- Catholic, Orthodox, or Muslim. (no Pagan category, b/c they are too few to merit one). Just what you generally prefer to play as, not what you currently are. And of course, tell why.
I tend to play Western Catholic factions. the whole game is a lot more intense with so many factions vying for power in a relatively small area, the diplomacy is much more intriguing, and it's very fun to manipulate the Papacy and the Crusades. Orthodox factions don't appeal to me due to the lack of Crusades, and their locations are very difficult. Muslim factions don't either because there aren't as many people to fight with and there is no Pope to manipulate.

[Tears of Destiny]

(no Pagan category, b/c they are too few to merit one)

Orthodox

1. Roman Empire
2. Republic of Novgorod
3. Grand Principality of Kiev

Pagan

1. Grand Duchy of Lithuania
2. Cumin Khanate
3. Mongolian Khanate

I call foul on you excluding the Pagans because they are too few to count!

Foul I say, foul!

Burn the non-believer!

[Gnostiko]

Cumin Khanate

Ahhh, the mighty Khanate that founded a commercial empire based on forcing others to buy their aptly named seed

Correct me if im wrong, but weren't the Romans from the Western Empire Catholics?

Before the fall of the west in 476, all Roman Christians were technically both orthodox and catholic (note the lack of capitalisation). The more pressing division of the day was between Arian Christians and Nicene Christians.

You are wrong, the Eastern Roman Empire schisimed from the Holy Roman Empire due to the HRE going Catholic and the ERE going Orthodox (Even in the game). This is why the Papal States encouraged the Normans to invade Sicily to oust the ERE.

Errrr, not strictly true. For one, the Roman Empire (I leave out the 'east' prefix because there was only one true Roman Empire) didn't 'schism away' from the German Empire - your wording implies the Roman Empire was somehow part of the German Empire (which it wasn't) and the Romans deviated from established Christian theology. The East-West schism is a helluva lot more complicated and gradual than a simple pick-a-name-for-your-christianity slapfest.
The Normans didn't oust the Romans from Sicily...they actually took the island from the Arabs. The Papacy also wasn't directing the Normans to attack the Romans; the Normans didn't need Papal approval anyway - having fought in Roman armies against the Arabs, Germans, and native Italians, they were already familiar with the weak position the Empire maintained in Italy.

[King Canute]

Personally the orthos are awesome, Byzantium is a classic and I still play bftb2(amazing mod) ss.1 so I have awesome Russians and on top of their early area strength you don't constantly have the pope nagging at you. Though catholic crusades can provide well timed strike forces, unfortunately the pope shoots you down as soon as attack other catholics(even if they attacked first > ) yet he never exco's them for assaulting you. And sometimes you have to deal with a mighty popedom (That is the biggest thing i hate in this mod) that you get aute exoed when they attack. Though the Muslims are also awesome factions. And to be fair the pagans should have a category. Cumans and Liths both make for very fun varied and awesome campaigns.

[Eärnur]

Correct me if im wrong, but weren't the Romans from the Western Empire Cathlics?

[Tears of Destiny]

Correct me if im wrong, but weren't the Romans from the Western Empire Cathlics?

You are wrong, the Eastern Roman Empire schisimed from the Holy Roman Empire due to the HRE going Catholic and the ERE going Orthodox (Even in the game). This is why the Papal States encouraged the Normans to invade Sicily to oust the ERE.
Consider Yourself Corrected

[PedroL]

Catholic

1. Portugal
2. Aragon
3. Norway
4. Scotland

Orthodox

1. Roman Empire

Pagan

1. Grand Duchy of Lithuania

[Eärnur]

You are wrong, the Eastern Roman Empire schisimed from the Holy Roman Empire due to the HRE going Catholic and the ERE going Orthodox (Even in the game). This is why the Papal States encouraged the Normans to invade Sicily to oust the ERE.
Consider Yourself Corrected

Ahhh, now i see..thankies for the correction!

[SoCCo]

You are wrong, the Eastern Roman Empire schisimed from the Holy Roman Empire due to the HRE going Catholic and the ERE going Orthodox (Even in the game). This is why the Papal States encouraged the Normans to invade Sicily to oust the ERE.
Consider Yourself Corrected

sadly the great skism had nothing to do with the HRE. it happen mainly because of different views of the christian church, the power strugle in southern italy ( not sicily ).
sicily by the time of the norman conquest was under moorish occupation for over 200 years.
the normans originaly invaded southern italy ( apulia ) at the request of some northern italians. the story goes like this:
some italian champs met 3 norman knights and they said "if we had 50-100 of you guys we could drive out the greeks from southern italy, you could come and send them home, the lands would be ALL YOURS"
so some normans decided to come, some poor knight in normandy had 12 sons, some of them are those who went in italy, they founded a dinasty. the pope allowed them to conquer those lands but he wasn't able to stop them uniting the regions into 1 kingdom as he had some fake documents that said the papacy inherited those lands from byzantine emperor constantine as a reward for healing him. so pope Leon decided to make things hard for the normans, the normans fought back, their knights destroyed the pope's army and the pope had to accept their lordship in the kingdom of naples. later they conquered sicily, created a powerfull and rich kingdom. they skipped the crusades as the current norman king in sicily loved the middle-eastern culture. during his time the 3 main religions and cultures in sicily ( catholic, muslim, greek-orthodox ) shared same lands without wars. something never heard before. this religion tolerance lasted during the reign of 2 more kings ( forgot their names and bloody hell it's 4:30 am i'm to lasy to search their names ).
the skism happen when the pope excomunicated the patriarch of byzantium, and the patriarch excomunicated the pope, they went separated ways and from that it's just another history. however, during those times, the HRE emperor had problems with the pope ( i belive it was gregory 6th or 7th ). the pope wished to reform the church, he had some laws, pretty much annoyed the emperor as the pope asked all princes kings and emperors to kiss his legs, he also said he was allowed to remove the crown of a prince/king or emperor. he also said he is the only one who can decide the bishops in northern italy and germany. so the emperor fought back, he got excomunicated, all his "friends" decided to attack him and then he begged for the pope's mercy ( the pope was at some castle in northern italy, and the emperor was left outside in the middle of the winter for 2 days in snow ). after his reconciliation the emperor decided to remove the pope, he sieged rome. as the pope had no allies, he asked the normans to rescue him, wich they did. but the pope went into exlie ( his famous quote " i loved inequity and justice, therefor i die in exile " ). the emperor elected a new pope, urban 2nd who continued some of gregory's reforms and later he called the first crusades to recapture jerusalim.
end of my little story, so now you can call yourself corrected <3

on topic. i prefer catholics as the region is overcrowded and i can influence the wars. i never allow 1 nation to conquer another nation, i don't want fat piggies to give me problems later, so i declare war, help the poor ai that got owned by the other ai. i keep things ballanced. on the other hand in muslim regions the game is boring, you have only 1 maybe 2 nations to fight off. many regions. i usually wipe out the mongols when they invade and then i look at the map, place my finger on a region and send the troops. totally boring.

[Gnostiko]

...It happen mainly because of different views of the christian church...

Not to mention the widening cultural gulf between the 'Greek' east and 'Latin' west!

they skipped the crusades as the current norman king in sicily loved the middle-eastern culture.

Don't forget there was quite a sizeable Norman contingent that participated in the First Crusade under Bohemund of Taranto.

the skism happen when the pope excomunicated the patriarch of byzantium, and the patriarch excomunicated the pope, they went separated ways and from that it's just another history.

Ahhh, the infamous mutual excommunication of Cardinal Humbert and Patriarch Michael Keroularios. The event itself is both defunct and anachronistic; the excommunications only applied to the aforementioned parties (that is, Humbert excommunicated Keroularios and vice versa). There was no blanket excommunication between east and west. The event is usually just used by historians to denote a watershed event in the relationship of the two patriarchates. Even then, it only came about after gradual, centuries long differences grew more emphatic.

[Ichon]

Reasons for the schism was mostly due to the Roman Emperor officially being still the leader of the faith... and so politics and religion were intertwined hopelessly. Part of the reason Muslims had such easy conquests is that the orders from Orthodox church were in fact orders from the Emperor often enough and that alienated many religious leaders and populations in the east which Muslims exploited.

In the west the Pope took a long time to gain the prestige that finally launched Crusades and that influence only lasted relatively brief time as such a high level. Most Church policies allowed much more regional control and as such the Church was not so monolithic or identified with only 1 state's policies like Orthodox was with the Roman Empire. The role of the Pope tried to get the whole Church centrally organized and some ways succeeded but never to the level of Orthodox church began.

I'm not surprised people like Orthodox- Romans are probably the single most popular faction. Followed by either England or the Scandinavian factions.

[hospitaller13]

You are wrong, the Eastern Roman Empire schisimed from the Holy Roman Empire due to the HRE going Catholic and the ERE going Orthodox (Even in the game). This is why the Papal States encouraged the Normans to invade Sicily to oust the ERE.
Consider Yourself Corrected

the "Holy Roman Empire" was never holy, roman, or even an empire

it was a conferderation of small german states under one banner

the Eastern roman empire and western roman empire split in the 4th century, but basically they were all still catholic, after the west collapse the pope crowned king of the franks charlmange (watever his dam name was) roman emperor pissing off the real roman empire, which with time developed its own distinctive greek orthodox culture, and led to the great schism in the 11 century

the fourth crusade made things even worse, and ultimatly opened the door for the ottoman turks

The Byzantine Empire is the real roman empire,


at the time Sicily was ruled by muslims who had invaded the island and much of southern europe in the 8th century,

Consider Yourself Corrected

[vtec.dominion]

Voted for muslims as the last game i played with non-islamic faction was at least year ago lol.
I used to play catholic factions but once i started game with the Turks i switched for muslim factions. Tearing Mongols apart is pure awesomness, fighting crusader armies, then the Timur arrives! Seeing burning knights in plate armor routing from your city square filled with laughing naffatuns, crushing TONS of papacy infantry with eastern heavy cavalry, can't really get enough

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

I luv them all, But prefer the Muslims factions...."One Moor to rule them all...."

[Bund weicher Birnen]

You forgot the Pagans! The true powerhouse of all!

[Tears of Destiny]

You forgot the Pagans! The true powerhouse of all!

Why yes, yes he did *Whispers: He is currently playing a teutonic game and exterminating them*

Any who, to answer the main thread, I mainly play all of them, with a small soft spot for the Orthodox factions.
I really enjoy the political/diplomatic differences they all offer, though int ruth the only islamic faction I find myself playing regularly is Kwarezmian, as Seljuks I am too burnt out on from fighting them allt he time as crusaders and romans, and the Egyptians start out too strong (I love their roster and cities, but they always start out as powerhouses which I slightly avoid for new games). The Moorish faction slot though I love, as it is in Iberia!

So there you go, I like playing them all for the unique reasons (Though the Baltic factions are my main focus as of late).

[Goldfingero]

Orthodox. The cross is cooler looking then the crescent but the problem with being christian is that you have to listen to a old bigot who wants you to make peace with another christian country who just have taken your capital.

But of course you won't make peace before you have the capital back, so you recapture the capital and then get excommunicated thinking its worth it. You click turn done and then *BAAM* CRUSADE CALLED AGAINST VIENNA.
But fear not! There was this great schism that created the orthodox church who don't have a ugly pope that want to ruin everything for you, now you can have a stylish cross without that .
And pagans are...boring in my opinion.

[Tears of Destiny]

Good point, though the Normans were encouraged lightly by the papacy (I think I read this somewhere, mebe I am wrong), though you are very correct in that they did not need their approval. And good clarification, I certainly worded that incorrectly.
End result is though that the Roman Empire in the game and at that point in history were Othodox.

Always a pleasure to encounter a history lesson on this forums. +rep when I can! (I spent all my cookies today).

[Ichon]

No outright preference. I usually play Catholic faction but that is because vast majority of factions are Catholic.

My favorite campaigns have been:

Portugal, Turks, Genoa, Lithuania, Kiev, CS, Hungary, Denmark, Aragon.

Only campaigns I found boring- Byzantines, Fatimids, England, Moors. Not so much from rosters, that was the only interesting part, but simply their position and enemies are underwhelming. Takes 100s turns to get anything interesting going. 1450 Byzantines were more interesting but even late their roster is pretty good. Just have to watch out for ribaults and halberds.

BTW- I have to agree, no pagans because they are too few? lol Obviously you aren't very often playing a pagan faction.

[Lifthrasir]

No outright preference. I usually play Catholic faction but that is because vast majority of factions are Catholic.

Same for me.