DFKs VS Armored Swordsmen & T.Militia VS S.Militia.

[Ezilkannan]

sorry for bringing this very old thread back. I see that theres some arguement between DFKs and Armored Swordsmen. I thought it would be best to test them out in battle and then come to a conclusion. I did 8 battles, 4 for DFKs and 4 for Armored Swordsmen.
It was basically divided into two types; one form of the battles tested their ability to hold the line, the other their capability when charging. I tested them with a different unit first and then against each other.
Here are the results
In these two battles i used the armored swordsmen and dismounted feudal knights to hold the line against the charage of dismounted noble knights (France)
the results were pretty similar except that DFKs inflicted more casualties than the armored swordsmen. NOTE: Both units held the line till the last man so their morale is pretty much the same.

The Armored Swordsmen

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The DFKs

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In these two battles i used them to charge at the enemy and here are the results. As expected, the armored swordsmen did better than the DFKs while charging because the enemy didnt hold the line when i charged with the swordsmen. He withdrew and then tried to charge, I had to chase them down to get them. While they were facing the DFKs, they held the line and never withdrew a single step. So, that shows that the armored swordsmen are good at breaking enemy morale when they attack. while the DFKs cant really break the opponents morale. Also the losses on the DFKs were pretty high, although it says that it was a clear victory, it really wasnt. as u can see from the losses it was pretty much an average victory with the DFKs.

The swordsmen

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DFKs

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This time i made them go against each other. Of the four battles that ensued, both of them couldnt win defending against each other's charge. So both are pretty much not that much useful in defending or holding lines against heavy infantry or against each other. However while i used them to attack or rather charge, the DFKs couldnt win against the Armored swordsmen, while the armored swordsmen made it look very easy.
Here are the results

The swordsmen defending

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when they were attacking........

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The DFKs trying to hold the line but in vain......

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and when they were attacking the armored swordsmen, they simply couldnt turn the tide of the battle. although at first it seemed as if they were winning, eventually they got tired and got beaten by the swordsmen.

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From the above results its clear that both DFKs as well as Armored Swordsmen are not to be relied on much if u want them to hold the line in a battle. But if you were thinking about attacking, The Armored Swordsmen clearly overpower the DFKs (maybe due to that additional defence point they have).

In the end we can come to conclusion that its better to use armored swordsmen if your english, because not only are they cheap but they also prove to be much effective than DFKs.
The armored swordsmen win the battle 2-1 against the DFKs. Hope i cleared your mind about this.

Don't Necropost again & put images in spoiler.

[Playeraka]

Mate, i saw your first line but come on
its like 2 years ago

[VersionLangley]

nice work ezilkan..but a few things
first is you test vs AI who behavior is too erratic. AI always loose to you in medium difficulty settings. try using noble swordmen from scot vs armoured swordmen from england both head on charge (exact same stat beside the upkeep cost). you'll win no matter what you take. one time when both unit have 8 men left, both gen survive and the enemy unit routed while mine isn't :laughing:. AI in hard-very hard settings receive bonus of unknown amount. for the DFK withdrawal, it wasn't because amoured swordmen break morale better, it was because if AI sense they're loosing, they'll pull out and attempt to regain the charge bonus.

second is for 30 more flourin in recruit cost, you can make the DFK much more powerful than the armoured swordmen. DFK+1amour upgrade =640......armoured swordmen = 610

so its all depends on money. chances are amoured swordmen will always be better for long term due to their lower upkeep cost as well as capabilities to go to full plate
for MP where recruitment cost is all that matter, it will be a different situation.

[PrestigeX]

The differences between these units tend to be very minor, but you'll find that some will have a slightly higher defence, or a slightly higher attack. They may not have the same armor upgrade capability. Amored swordsmen may cost more than feudal knights, but their upkeep is quite a bit lower - or vice versa I forget. You also end up getting units in an order, most commonly seargent spearmen -- then armored spearmen. Sometimes you'll take over regions you haven't got the ability to get amored spearmen, OR, you've already got a blacksmith/armorer in your castle so there's no real need to get the up-amored version now...

As for Town militia, yes they do suck pretty hard in vanilla, I'd never used them at all. However, in some of the mods I'll play they tend to be a bit more what you'd expect them to be - better than peasants, and basically on par with spear militia but different. In a lot of hte mods, spear militia is highly capable at fighting cavalry or holding a place, and then town militia can be used to fight enemy infantry - typicaly you send them against other militia units.

[painter]

I would like to add to the debate between town militias and spear militias.

While town militias are cannon fodder on the battlefield, in the right conditions they can be valuable in reducing the stress on your early economy.

• With only wooden walls, you can immediately recruit town militias.
• With only wooden walls, you can garrison three town militias for free upkeep.
• You are no longer pressured to spend 1,800 florins and 5 turns in building the "town watch" and the "town guard" facilities in the early game and can focus on building more useful buildings.
• By garrisoning with free upkeep units earlier, you can save a considerable sum of florins. It's 2,500 florins saved after just twenty turns for a single unit and it may take longer still for some villages to grow large enough to be able to host spear militia for free.

Don't be so quick to discount their usefulness.

[Silverheart]

But I still prefer Spear militias over Town militias - they´re just better, a complete upgrade. They are good as standard infantry, and when en masse they´re quite solid at defending breached gates. When in tandem with Archer militia, they also work well in field battles, as long as the enemy doesn´t have any troops that are out of their league.
However, in settlements that are safe or far behind the borders, military development is of course less prioritized.

[painter]

I agree that spear militias are much better and they are my preferred city garrison unit to recruit. But in the early stages of the game, using town militias will free up thousands of florins, florins that you may then invest into farming, ports, training castle units and maintaining a larger army.

[Ishan]

I agree that spear militias are much better and they are my preferred city garrison unit to recruit. But in the early stages of the game, using town militias will free up thousands of florins, florins that you may then invest into farming, ports, training castle units and maintaining a larger army.

I agree and this reminds me when first time i used peasant archers in my grand campaign as HRE, i had 6 units and they rocked as hell on denmark.

[The Source]

+rep to ezlinken(whateva

[Ezilkannan]

@troy7 thanks for the rep

@VersionLangley this may seem to be a little off-topic, but i think i found a solution to the money problem, take a look at this,

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

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These SS were taken when i played the game for the first time, i didnt like to use the shell cheats because it only gives u 40000 max and also, u would have to add it everytime due to the upkeep of large armies. so i modified some stuff so that i would get some steady flow of cash (without using medieval shell).

Ofcourse now i dont use it though, but if anyone of you want some info on that, i can help them.

Please use spoilers for big images, second time i'm telling you.

[Double A]

snip

Uh... what?