The real difference between swordsmen and spearmen?

[SirRobin]

I seem to remember there was once a 'natural law' in the TW-series that said: "Swordsmen beat spearmen. Spearmen beat cavalry. Cavalry beats swordsmen".

Does this basic rule still hold for Stainless Steel? Or is it just a game of stats now?

If we imagine two units with exactly the same stats and all other factors being equal, one armed with sword and shield, the other with spear and shield, which one will win:

• In an equal fight on plan ground?
• Assaulting/defending a bridge?
• Assaulting/defending a gatehouse?
• Assaulting/defending on walls?

[midget_roxx]

No spearmen are better against cavalry, although I'm not sure if swordsmen will beat speamen in a straight up battle. I'd say it would come close but swordsmen pull out ahead.

Btw, a weaker force can hold back a much stronger one when at the walls

[Medkirtys]

• In an equal fight on plan ground? I think swordsmen
• Assaulting/defending a bridge? Spearmen would be better at defense i think
• Assaulting/defending a gatehouse? Spearmen hold the line
• Assaulting/defending on walls? Swords definetely

[Caesar Clivus]

There are 3 different types of swords in RC (light, normal and long swords)and 2 different types of spear (spears and light spears. not including pikes etc). All 3 swords have higher defense values than spears and two of them have higher attack values too. The light sword has the same attack value as the spears, but has a lower attack delay.

I seem to remember there was once a 'natural law' in the TW-series that said: "Swordsmen beat spearmen. Spearmen beat cavalry. Cavalry beats swordsmen".

Translation: we cant be arsed to create a more complex combat system than "rock, scissors, paper" (They should've at least added lizard and Spock).

[HolyDevil]

IIRC, spears (any type) have a bonus vs cavalry, one that is not shown ingame

just like maces have a low attack value but they still crush those heavy armored units

[Point Blank]

Divisions in combat between unit types is much more blurred in RC than the original Rock, Paper, Scissors.

[RollingWave]

in more technical terms...

a. almost all spear units gets the "light_spear" or "spear" attribute, which means that in terms of similar quality units spearmens are much harder to overrun strait up than swordsmen (though for very high quality late swordsmen that might not hold true)

b. in RC terms spearmen gets a +2 on their shield bonus.

in the end, it's not neccesary that swordsmen beats spearmen, the problem is that most spearmens go between peasant milita to average level (aka utter suck to decent) with a few in the superior range, while most swordsmen start at average level and typically fall between superior / elite with some in the exceptional and a few in militia range.

the key is that most swordsmen are simply much higher in quality than spearmen, reflecting that sword was a expensive weapon and usually only well trained professional warriors would own them, where as spear is more of a common men's weapon.

if you compare a totally equal quality / gear sword / spearmen though, the difference becomes relatively limited. for example a exceptional long swordsmen with heavy mail and a kite would be something like 10 attack, 6 armour, 9 defense skill, 5 shield 0 attack delay while a similiar armour / quality spearmen would be 8 attack , 6 armour 7 defense skill 7 shield . in practice this basically means that the swordsmen have a slight advantage against the spearmen due to 2 extra attack, but the spearmen has a better chance against range attack and cavalry charge.

[Point Blank]

Spearmen get a penalty versus swordsmen, seems to be a defense reduction. However, they usually have closer spacing between men due to tighter formations so can concentrate attacks somewhat better than swordsmen. Their attack anims are also fairly rapid. As RollingWave stated, they do get a +2 shield bonus to reflect their combat style, with shields close together and protecting their adjacent comrades. However, their defense base is very low (1) as a result of that, and can even drop to zero. This makes them very, very vulnerable to being flanked.

The 'spear' attribute is little used, its a bit overpowered versus cavalry and penalises the spearmen versus infantry too much. Its mostly 'light_spear'.