The Hellenic States

[Aleksander the Average]

Lanjane: +rep

questions: why are illyrian peltastai in barracks instead of ranges?

even though we want to keep vanilla feeling... this gave me an idea. perhaps change recruitment: make barracks more expensive and longer to build but let them do everything that barracks+stables+ranges could do.




edit: and - maybe this is stupid - force people to choose between barbarian OR civilized barracks... both makes it easy somehow... (you could use the temple format to force a choice)

edit 2: i can help with this if you want.

[Cinuz]

I believe that leaving all the units in only one barrack would be a better idea, but do as you wish..

About pontus, I was thinking that the greek cavalry unit should be just an add, without replacing anything. After all, just one of those units should be added, not both the companions and the heavy cavalry!

Why not adding the italic skirmishers even to romans anyway? Historically, they used the socii militas to fill their armies!

Moreover, I was thinking that the phalanx formations should be removed from some units. To keep the vanilla feel of the mod, they could use the normal spearmen animation. I was mainly thinking to this units:

- Militia Hoplites
- Spartan Hoplites

The other hoplites unit (normal hoplites and the heavy version) could use the phalanx with the attribute short_pikes tor eflect the iphikratean phalanx that was used on that time!

What do you think?

[Aleksander the Average]

so, what was your idea for the barracks Cinuz?

i agree on pontus.

i do not agree on the romans having italic skirmishers... most of their infantry already have javelins

i agree about the hoplites.

also... try giving triarii the wedge formation... they tear apart phalanxes if given the right circumstances.

edit: i saw something that someone did to enable wedge formations for infantry... i'll see if i can find it.

[Lanjane]

Thanks for suggestions!

I'll give some hoplites overhand-style animation (like Illyrian ones ) Btw, the wedge formation can't be applied to infantry, alas.
Pontus already has superior heavy cavalry (Cappadocian cav), but has not light close-combat cav. So I'll add greek cavalry to them.
I remember about carthaginian roster and hellenized cavalry for Illyria.

Also, I replaced iberian infantry with iberian caetrati (the same but with javelins, reskinned a bit).

Btw, the reason why italic and illyrian skirmishers can be recruited from barracks, not archery range. They are more than regular skirmishers, but reliable close-combat light infantry. The same about caetrati (will be in next version of minipatch). Also, I'm going to add carthaginian sailors (however, I'm not sure of what type of infantry should they be) and heavy celtiberian mercenary infantry to Carthage (will be available from dockyard).

[Cinuz]

About the barracks, I wanted to leave them unique because I always disliked the idea of more barracks, because I don't think that in a city there were this differences...the warriors would have trained themselves quite everywhere and if there was a barrack, I believe that they would have used that. In the end, a barrack is just a building where soldiers could rest, not a building specialised in training hoplites etc...

Well, the javelins could be taken away from the model, it's not a big problem....anyway, it would be historically truth, and moreover this way, the romans could get a quite good spearmen units, superior to the milita's spearmen but more accessible (in term of time) then the triarii...


EDIT - i think that the carthagian marines should be a close combat infantry, armed with javelins. Something comparable to hastati!

[debux]

Poeni Marine Archers is good enough I guess... enough infantry with the heavy sword infantry Lanjane would be adding.

BTW, instead of creating a unit from scratch (or kind of), why not just reskin the Iberian Scutarii? Instead of giving them a focus on one territory of Iberia, why not make it more general (keeping the aim for simplicity of this mod)?

[debux]

One question, why can't comadre_general have his own thread for his mods in the main RTW hosted mods area? Fells kinda limited to talk about all these things in one thread

[Alast0r]

One question, why can't comadre_general have his own thread for his mods in the main RTW hosted mods area?

Because he needs to ask for it in the first place .

[Sabazios]

About the barracks, either just keep the regular buildings or make an entire aor system for all factions. Not half - half. Personally I think adding or replacing units with the regular buildings will do just fine. Like Cinuz said, its just a building.

I do like the idea of marines recruitable from shipwrights. And i have to say once again, your models look very good!

[comrade_general]

Because he needs to ask for it in the first place .

The man says: "Mods need to be in the Mod Threads forum for at least two months to build community interest before even being considered for a mod forum."

Sorry guys pretty thoughtless if you ask me, since this has been in the works in the Pyrrhic Victory thread for many months.

Otherwise nice work all, especially Lanjane!

[Achea]

Yes, I will get right on those descriptions. Long or short?

EDIT- Done short, do not have time for long at the moment. Change them as you wish.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Liby- Phoenician Infantry - Armed in the classic hoplite fashion, Liby-Phoenician Infantry are hardy troopers and well able to hold the line in combat.

Illyrian Hoplites- The ranks of Illyrian Hoplites are filled with well to do citizens and nobles. Carrying into battle the traditional Hoplon and thrusting spear, these men are a valuable addition to any warlord’s army.

Illyrian Skirmishers- Centuries of tribal warfare has developed these skilled soldiers. Heavy skirmishers armed with a large shield and sword and carrying a complement of javelins, Illyrian skirmishers are adapted for many situations.

Massalian Swordsmen- The clash of Greek and Barbarian cultures reached a climax with the development of the Massilian swordsmen. Armed to the teeth with flexible linothorax armour, small shield and a devastating slashing sword, the cultural mix has created a potent type of soldier.

Italic Skirmishers- Italic skirmishers provide a reliable skirmishing force for Epirote generals. Carrying a rectangular shield and wearing a breastplate, Italic skirmishers can unleash a volley of javelins on the enemy and run around exposed flanks at a moments notice.

Peltasts- Generic

I would also suggest removing “skirmishers” from Iberia’s roster. They are of little use to a human player and since AI Iberia spams them makes Iberian quite weak as well.

[Lanjane]

Achea, thank you!

Quick preview of punic sailors. It may be hard to notice, but they have attached quiver, shortsword, a belt worn over one shoulder and a small satchel. Their primary and secondary weapon are bow and... harpoon Trust me they look very cool on battlefield.

[Achea]

Those are fantastic! +rep

Punic Sailors- Marksmanship honed from many naval encounters, the Punic Sailors are skilled with the bow and with the short ranged harpoon. Punic Sailors are men drawn from naval ranks to plug holes in Carthaginian armies lacking ranged forces.

[Aleksander the Average]

i have another suggestion! thuerophoroi@!!

that way i don't have to wait for royal barracks to give the successors a good non-pike melee unit...

maybe make them comparable to hastati or principes?

[Achea]

Heavy Peltasts are essentially Thureophoroi.

[Aleksander the Average]

Heavy Peltasts are essentially Thureophoroi.

do the successors have them?

and... to my (rather limited) knowledge thureophoroi were equipped with linothorax or comparable armor and a spear...

plus thureophoroi and thorakitai make a good couple when on the same roster, don't you think?

[Lanjane]

Caetrati (former iberian infantry) moved to missiles building instead of skirmishers; New unit - iberian spearmen - added; libyan spearmen (Carthage) moved to militia barracks, scutarii added to city barracks (Carthage).
Thanks to all for your invaluable suggestions and help!

About thureophoroi... So, what should I do with them?

[Aleksander the Average]

awesome iberians Lanjane!

also you left the .TGA off the texture for the dacian (illyrian) peltast.
(ths/data/models_unit/textures/)

...About thureophoroi... So, what should I do with them?

well... i would model them after heavy peltasts... but with the armor and spear as well as javelins.

obviously you should give them a thureos...

edit: if you've got the time or interest... the ptolomies should get a perched eagle on the sheilds... for macedon a sun with a wreath around it or something... for antigonids and seleucids i have no idea - maybe just blank for all of them if that's easier.

[ninjabanana]

I'm experiencing a weird bug with this mod. Sometimes, in the pre-battle loading screen, the game just shuts down. I've never experienced this before in vanilla. The error message I get after the game shuts down simply says "Rome: Total War ahd to be shut down" or something to that effect. Maybe I should try reinstalling the mod?

[Lanjane]

ninjabanana, please give more information...
- what faction you played?
- what was the enemy faction?
- if you can, post a screenshot of prebattle armies (what units did you and your enemy have)
- Have you installed sprites fix?
Thank you.