The Hellenic States

[Cinuz]

If anyone is interested, I've removed the phalanx formation from some unit. They now fight like the lybian spearmen and triarii, cause i didn't wanted to give them the overhand animation to maintain the vanilla feeling. To do so, I had to re-work some stats (mainly defence, discipline and morale valour), because the phalanx formation granted them a big defensive advantage and I had to maintain them useful unit that doesn't rout when a cavalry unit charge them!

The units without phalanx formation are this one:

- Milita hoplites (i've increased the defensive stats by 2)
- Armoured hoplites (Increased quite everything to make them a sort of elite unit for massalia since now they don't have the phalanx formation no more, while always being weaker then the spartans, to maintain the balance for the greek faction)
- Carthaginian sacred band (Same as armoured hoplites. They have been defeated by marian legionaries, but just after killing an half of their effectives. Anyway, carthage always have poeni infantry that use the phalanx formation)
- Spartans (don't worry, they always are an insta-killing-machine. I even had to lower a bit their attack value)

Uhm, i believe that's it, I don't think I'm forgotting anything...I've leaved the phalanx formations to normal hoplites to leave to the greeks and to massalia a purely defensive unit, who could also show the iphikratean phalanx way of fight (sort of macedon phalanx but with shorter pikes).
After thinking a little bit about it, I've decided to leave to the armenian heavy lancers the phalanx formations with short_pikes attributes to reflect the hellenisation of the eastern area during the diadochi's era.

What do you guys think? Are you interested? Should I upload the file?

[Lanjane]

Your changes look reasonable, and if others don't mind, I can merge your tweaks with my minipatch too.

[Aleksander the Average]

Your changes look reasonable, and if others don't mind, I can merge your tweaks with my minipatch too.

agree... but perhaps it will also help balance to make the sacred band and spartans take longer to train as well.

[debux]

About the Romans, I agree with what alexander the average says. I'm thinking maybe the thoraktai should be at least under the legionaries, but not let themselves get eaten up. I don't know if this would make them superior to the principes though (historically the post-marian legionary was based on the principes)

Cinuz, I think the tweaking you did is great +rep in part because it was I had in mind . Besides now armored hoplites won't be as powerful now.

And can we please make poeni infantry more accessible by moving them to the city barracks?

I'll take that suggestion to my grave if it's necessary...

[Achea]

Upload the file, but just make it compatible with the minipatches, so people have a choice. Nice looking units as well.

EDIT: While I really want to maintain the vanilla feel, I would not be opposed to editing hoplites so they fight like this-

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Adding in the short_spear attribute couldn't hurt either.

[Aleksander the Average]

what does everyone think about giving militia hoplites shirts. i know we want to keep the vanilla feel... but i don't think they would have fought in JUST their man-skirts...

anyone else with me?

[Cinuz]

I've changed the sacred band and the spartans' recruitment turns from 2 to 3...

Here is the file!

EDIT - I like Sabazios suggestion for the thureophoroi!

[Aleksander the Average]

brilliant images Sabazios. +rep. where did you get them?

you too Cinuz. i like your fixes.

[Sabazios]

brilliant images Sabazios. +rep. where did you get them?

you too Cinuz. i like your fixes.

a search for the right thureophoroi pictures got me on some dudes site, he's one of those oldschool total war players (as in miniature figures ).

I like this pic to:

[Achea]

On a fairly off topic note, I just posted a Hellenic States "Who Am I?" map in that thread in general discussion, so come and guess.

[Derpy Hooves]

Delete post

[Achea]

Nice pictures Sabazios, you can have some rep on me.

Despite the fact Liby-Phoenicians have spears, they use light_spear attribute and they haven't any penalties vs. infantry; you may check export_descr_unit to see. And their secondary weapon is a sword already, so in general they should be pretty effective if used against roman pre-marian troops.

Really? Because they get THRASHED by Principes, even without throwing a volley of javelins. I just did a custom battle, and for every Principe killed around 8.5 LPs were killed.

[Aleksander the Average]

even though now i realize all you did was scroll down further than me in google images... you still get the rep.

[Lanjane]

Hi guys. Thank you very much for images; I spend a half of an evening to get something similar to them, but here they are, new version of thureophoroi.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

However, I think that I'll add both versions to the game, as 'light' (unarmored) and 'heavy' thureophoroi. There are still some work to handle with, but new minipatch is on its way.

[Sabazios]

Hi guys. Thank you very much for images; I spend a half of an evening to get something similar to them, but here they are, new version of thureophoroi.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

However, I think that I'll add both versions to the game, as 'light' (unarmored) and 'heavy' thureophoroi. There are still some work to handle with, but new minipatch is on its way.

Great man! Especially the helmets!

Maybe rename the heavy ones to 'greek marines' or something and add them to the shipwright/dockyard?

[Spartan198]

Maybe rename the heavy ones to 'greek marines' or something and add them to the shipwright/dockyard?

They're a bit too light to be marines, if you ask me. Marines are melee troops, whereas Thureophoroi (both "light" and "heavy") are just a heavier variety of skirmisher.

[Achea]

Great job, they look just right. As always, I can help out with descriptions and such. +rep

[Cinuz]

The thureophoroi are great, but if I can give you a suggestion, I'd re-colour the cape so that it would have the red of the faction's colours...

[Sabazios]

They're a bit too light to be marines, if you ask me. Marines are melee troops, whereas Thureophoroi (both "light" and "heavy") are just a heavier variety of skirmisher.

Based on this article (http://www.ne.jp/asahi/luke/ueda-sar...hikrates1.html) I though that the model of the heavy thueorophoroi would be nice to use for marines. I agree that the name greek marines isnt really appropriate then, maybe call them Iphikratean Marines instead.

edit: hmm just saw that they were armed with pelta shield instead of thureos

[Aleksander the Average]

what about using the light thureophoroi to replace heavy peltasts, and the heavy thureophoroi as multipurpose infantry recruited at city barracks... i don't like the port idea personally