Why don't Atheists criticize Tibetan Buddhism?

[sephodwyrm]

Come on, they worship images that seem to be straight from WH40K Chaos sect of Slaanesh.


This is the Buddha of Delight (Huanxi Fo).

And a lot of Christians seem to be cool with this. Actually, more cool with than with other monotheistic people (such as Muslims).

[Phier]

Because they have never told me that a strip club in my town needs to be close due to moral issues, or that the earth is 6000 years old and that should be taught in schools.

All religions are daft to some degree if Tibetan Buddhism becomes main stream, then I'll be pointing out the silliness.

[Pious Agnost]

Economy of time.

[Silver Guard]

Atheism isn't a single, world-aligning set of values. It is a very simple one, that there is no such thing as a deity. Buddhism (in the majority of it's non-hindu combined forms) does not worship a deity or creator being (although some formulations of Buddhism do exactly that or close to that, this is true of the majority.) And as such do not form a problem form an atheistic standpoint, only to other beliefs (such as empiricism and certain humanist perspectives) which often come in combination with Atheism in a thinker.

Not only that, but Buddhism, even Tibetan specific Buddhism, is far from one unified set of beliefs. It is far more diverse and convoluted than even the denominations of Christianity. As well as this, it is far from being a dominant religion in western spheres of thought. This combination means most western Atheists do not know enough about Buddhism to possibly comment upon it, let alone criticise it. I know I couldn't, despite being outspoken against Judeo-Christian beliefs.

Buddhism is also often seen as more of a philosophy than a religion, and is often true in versions which are not so combined with Hindu beliefs as many Indian versions. As such it is quite easily combined with theistic religions as a non-directly contradictory or antagonistic belief, which makes many religious people more open to it than other more directly competing religions.

[Gordon Freynman]

This is the Buddha of Delight (Huanxi Fo).

At least they're being creative.

[Tacitursa]

It doesnt cause any serious or unfair problems for people as far as i know

[Their Law]

Alot of atheists come from western society and thus the entrenched religion is usually Christianity. But Buddhism has it flaws, like all religions it has diverged significantly from it's original beliefs. Presently Theravada Buddhism is the closest to the original Buddhist core belief, but the most well known sects such as Tibetan Buddhism has diverged significantly. For example the idea of reincarnation is on dubious theological ground at best.

Like all religions it's also fallen prey to the idea of tradition being sacrosanct, incredibly ironic when you consider Buddhism was a rebellion against the established social order of the time.

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

Alot of atheists come from western society and thus the entrenched religion is usually Christianity. But Buddhism has it flaws, like all religions it has diverged significantly from it's original beliefs. Presently Theravada Buddhism is the closest to the original Buddhist core belief, but the most well known sects such as Tibetan Buddhism has diverged significantly. For example the idea of reincarnation is on dubious theological ground at best.

Like all religions it's also fallen prey to the idea of tradition being sacrosanct, incredibly ironic when you consider Buddhism was a rebellion against the established social order of the time.

None of what you say is true. Theravada is one of the farthest; so is Tibbetan Buddhism. Buddhism was not a rebellion against the established order, rather it was merely a divergence of minor sorts with the Brahmin caste, otherwise, it is basically a rehersal of Vedantism.

Christianity has a lot of elements which make it extremely pervasive and disturbing. One needs only to read Nietzsche's critique of it; by comparison, most Eastern traditions like Taoism and Buddhism are much less moralistic, purpose driven and dogmatic. If Atheists could dish their exclusive attachment to sensible matter, they would be closer to the core tenets of Buddhism (not the devotional part, which is a later invention) than Christians themselves.

Reincarnation is a fraud brought to you by French spiritualists. It has nothing to do with Eastern religions, or didn't, before people were brainwashed by a colonial ethos into adopting syncretistic practices.

[Tuor]

Reincarnation is a fraud brought to you by French spiritualists. It has nothing to do with Eastern religions, or didn't, before people were brainwashed by a colonial ethos into adopting syncretistic practices.

Can you give me a link to a website with more about this, perhaps? I find it interesting. I'm not challenging you or anything; I just want to read more about it.

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

Can you give me a link to a website with more about this, perhaps? I find it interesting. I'm not challenging you or anything; I just want to read more about it.

Unfortunately, no good and complete sources in English (at least not in my readings). But this site here does a quick job at distinguishing the concept of rebirth from "reincarnation" (ie transmigration).

[Their Law]

None of what you say is true.

Well that's good to know

Theravada is one of the farthest; so is Tibbetan Buddhism.

I'd like to know how that's wrong, i have no problem being proven wrong, but please give a reason.

Buddhism was not a rebellion against the established order, rather it was merely a divergence of minor sorts with the Brahmin caste, otherwise, it is basically a rehersal of Vedantism.

I've read differently, Buddhism as i understand it was a rejection of the very stratified and ritualistic nature of Vedism.

Reincarnation is a fraud brought to you by French spiritualists. It has nothing to do with Eastern religions, or didn't, before people were brainwashed by a colonial ethos into adopting syncretistic practices.

And yet Tibetan Buddhism features the idea strongly.

[Babur]

Reincarnation is a fraud brought to you by French spiritualists. It has nothing to do with Eastern religions, or didn't, before people were brainwashed by a colonial ethos into adopting syncretistic practices.

Reincarnation came from Hinduism, unless the Bhagavad Gita was written by the French too and in Sanskrit .

Come on, they worship images that seem to be straight from WH40K Chaos sect of Slaanesh.


This is the Buddha of Delight (Huanxi Fo).

And a lot of Christians seem to be cool with this. Actually, more cool with than with other monotheistic people (such as Muslims).

what exactly merits Tibetan Buddhism being singled out for criticism out of all the Buddhist sects?.I have visited Sarnath and Dharamsala, didn't see anything wrong there lol.

[Khassaki]

Reincarnation came from Hinduism, unless the Bhagavad Gita was written by the French too and in Sanskrit .

I think he is distinguishing between being reborn and reincarnation. Reincarnation implies awareness.

what exactly merits Tibetan Buddhism being singled out for criticism out of all the Buddhist sects?.I have visited Sarnath and Dharamsala, didn't see anything wrong there lol.

Tibetan buddhism has a lot more bonking in its iconography at a guess.

[irontaino]

I've never had Buddhists come to my door and try to convert me and shout at me in tongues when i refused.

[Blaze86420]

I've never had anybody but Jehovah's witnesses do that to me. And it happened like six times. I tried convincing them that my faith is pretty solid and that I already believed in Jesus, then they started blabbing about "loving" Jesus and praying to him every night. Its hard to believe Christians even believe in God sometimes.

[irontaino]

I've never had anybody but Jehovah's witnesses do that to me. And it happened like six times. I tried convincing them that my faith is pretty solid and that I already believed in Jesus, then they started blabbing about "loving" Jesus and praying to him every night. Its hard to believe Christians even believe in God sometimes.

Yeah it's way more common for Jehova's witnesses, but those on occasions, Pentecostals come...I'm not sure if that was just an upstate NY phenomenon

[Ellsid]

I don't fear being stoned to death or burned at the stake....

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

I'd like to know how that's wrong, i have no problem being proven wrong, but please give a reason.

Well, many and many reasons... Thing is that I can only speak generalizations because I'm really just scratching the surface of what Buddhism is currently.

Tibetan Buddhism, simply speaking, adopts many practices which come directly from the old shamanism of Far Eastern peoples, eg. not just the Tibetans but the Chinese too.

Finally, and although I'll probably attract a lot of flak here, calling Buddhism a "religion" is a misunderstanding. Speaking in familiar terms, it would be more like "philosophy" - all these things which you see, like Buddha statues, monasteries where people pray, the Dalai Lama... Really aren't part of original Buddhist canon but later additions of a popularizing character; there's nothing to "worship" here. There's no "intercession", there are no super-entities such as "Gods" or "Demons", and so on.

Finally, there's the Dalai Lama. His spiritual authority as a leader of Tibetan Buddhism is contested in other Buddhist circles, and I have seen him getting a lot of flak not only because his authority is probably illegitimate, but also because his image as a highly ethical leader is a propaganda fabrication.

And yet Tibetan Buddhism features the idea strongly.

Yet another reason not to take it seriously.

[sephodwyrm]

alling Buddhism a "religion" is a misunderstanding. Speaking in familiar terms, it would be more like "philosophy" - all these things which you see, like Buddha statues, monasteries where people pray, the Dalai Lama... Really aren't part of original Buddhist canon but later additions of a popularizing character

I totally agree on you on this one, Louis.

Buddhism has a lot more to do with self-enlightenment (albeit through meditation instead of empirical and pragmatic experimentation). But what we're talking about here is a religion-cult-sect known as Tibetan Buddhism. Like what you've mentioned, it's already a pretty perverted form of the original Buddhism. Complete with an established theocracy that once ruled people directly. Nowadays atheists (including those in China) seem to find Tibetan Buddhism rather benign etc.

[Garbarsardar]

But what we're talking about here is a religion-cult-sect known as Tibetan Buddhism. Like what you've mentioned, it's already a pretty perverted form of the original Buddhism. Complete with an established theocracy that once ruled people directly. Nowadays atheists (including those in China) seem to find Tibetan Buddhism rather benign etc.

It never crossed my mind that Tibetan Buddhism is associated with any perversion. You see, I trust the wisdom of Chinese authorities and especially Hu Yaobang, who permitted the free practice of this religion.