Elite units of the HRE?!

[Sn000kerAble]

Heyho, I am still playing the HRE like I did in the vanilla-version and I am noticing some problems with my recent armies. Furthermore, my game is set in the early-campaign.

For starters I miss almost every special unit like the gothic-knights or the Forlon-Hope. Not to mention units like the German Knights (who weren't that good if I remember correct) or Prussian Archers, from the Kingdom-Mod (I guess they should be available since the HRE and the Teutonic Order used them both).

The year is 1267 and you may say that it's just to early for my elite-units, but it seems that they aren't in the building/unit review neither.

Now you may think that for my time, feudal knights and every other standard unit is enough to win a war, but it is just pretty costly when I fight against the English (who conquered France) and their longbowmen I just ask myself "Cool.. and what do I have?" and then I see nothing... even some mounted Crossbowriders would be nice... I know about my Ritterbrüders (Oh **** the hell, YES!) and their effects on an army (When mongols run before my steel) but they are extrem expensive, come only every 10 rounds and it seems that neither Magdeburg, nor Hamburg, nor the Citadels in the east grant me the opportunity to upgrade the chapter house... so I can't really fill an army with my few elites, like the English.. or the Lithuanian.. or the Mongols.. or the Byzantine.

Are they going to come someday? Do I have some good long-range units someday? Will the german knights be better than the average feudals? Nd is someone going to answer?

[Tears of Destiny]

Nothing will show up in the building browser until it is triggered.
Prussian archers are only recruitable in prussian regions due to being an AoR unit (Area of Recruitment).

The Gothic Plate trigger is 351 turns in from early period, double this number if you are using the 2TPY sub mod obviously, as years happen at half rate. So year 1451 basically.

First Rudder comes around turn 80 and I believe the Trebuchet becomes trainable then that or first wheel barrow at around turn 101

Plus at turn 101ish is the Heavy Mail event, believe a new armorer pops up along with more units

Mounted crossbow event around 126ish

Coat of Plates also known as transistional armour in the event script comes out 141ish and more units I think

English Archers 171ish believe makes better longbowmen not sure

Turn 201ish is the New Era event, better mercs to hire and maybe units idk

Cannons at 206 for muslims and a dozen or so turns after that are available for rest

Partial plate at 211 so more units again and better armour

Pavise sheilds at 226

First blast furnace and handgun at 251

Full plate at 281

First Piano 301 I think either Hungary or Poland gets a special unit

Improved Metallurgy and world is round 301 New armor and ships I think

Matchlock 321 new gunners maybe

Gothic Armor 351 gothic knights of course and more armour again

Musket invented 411 so musketeers of course

Pike and Shot 431 so pikes come out now and halberdiers (?) along with more gunpowders

Advanced Metallurgy at 431 armour once more

Advanced Matchlock 451 maybe late muskets then

The Flintlock at 481

That is all I have right now (For important events anyway)

EDIT : World is round is put in twice IDK why but it is either 301 or 367

Add 1100 to these numbers and that is the year it will trigger.
Next time when playing, try out starting a late era game, which starts at the year 1220. Less waiting.

[Sn000kerAble]

Well, thank you
Now I know, that the HRE doesn't have any good against longbowmen and that the only thing I can use is my brain and an average army with maybe 1 or 2 Ritterbrüders... sucks doesn't it? Or am I missing something? I mean right now I have not much of hope to fight the moslems, english and conquer kievan russ or Fatimid Caliphate anyday...

[Tears of Destiny]

Holy Roman Empire boasts a very powerful start-of high-era army.
Keep in mind that when you get Imperial Knights, they have maces, and thus half the armor value of anything they hit (Effective against armor attribute). They also boast a very stable economy due to the abnormal amount of mines they have in that region.

Disadvantage is that they have the "clone" armies that most wesetern european nations have in early era, as well as a slight lack of late era power. Near the end of Late era, and start of High-Era, they become a juggernaut.

However, due to the dependance on Feudal troops, you will become crippled sometime during 1500 to 1600, as there is an event around 1600 that makes Proffessionals dominate the game (As they did historically) and no longer are Feudals recruitable.

You still have a few decades to go before your true rise in power.

[Sn000kerAble]

Thanks, i guess that answered my question.. however, I don't like my early lack of elites and professionals, but it seems that will change in the future.

[Gogolometro]

Against english archers, bet on pavise crossbowmans recruited in castles at level 3 archery range.
They are armored, long range, piercing bolts and good in melee. Against any archer unit, best tactic is use cavalry, extesive. Atack forward with heavi infatry, armored and shields, than send the masacrators, the heavy cavalry. In fact any cavalry, merchant, sargents, anything is good against archers. Rittenbrunders are easy establish a house if you go in crusades!
Other nice thing you can do is remember about AoR. So if you not plan to go in Lithuania for their archers, in Sicily for muslim archers, in Africa for the desert archers, in Anatolia for turkish archers, in Greece for murtadoi, be a smart kaiser and invade Britain. Why to be pissed by britts, get their longbows in your army!

[k/t]

High comes before Late.

You are not going be be crippled by the disappearance of Feudal units since your crossbowmen and gun people are Early and Late Professionals, respectively, Gendarmes and Demi-Lancers are LPs, Pikemen and Halberdiers are LPs, and you still have Zweihanders (LP) and Foot Men At Arms (EP), as well as Halberd and Pike Militias.

[Tears of Destiny]

High comes before Late.

You are not going be be crippled by the disappearance of Feudal units since your crossbowmen and gun people are Early and Late Professionals, respectively, Gendarmes and Demi-Lancers are LPs, Pikemen and Halberdiers are LPs, and you still have Zweihanders (LP) and Foot Men At Arms (EP), as well as Halberd and Pike Militias.

I said crippled because my over-reliance on impirial knights and Ritterbruders (Who are feudal not religious) made my line holders go poof on me. Also, I could have sworn Gothic Knights are Feudal.

But yes, "crippled" was too strong a choice of words, but in my opinion the HRE still hurts more then say Venice or France when the Feudals go poof.

EDIT(By poof I mean unable to replace battlefield losses)

[Point Blank]

Gothic Knights are Feudal.

[Tears of Destiny]

Gothic Knights are Feudal.

Thank you, my good Sir.

[k/t]

I never use more than 1 unit of each type of Feudal unit in an army because they can't be replenished very easily. Bring on the LPs!

[Paladin94610]

Then just don't fight with English.
Ally with Poland, Strengthen borders. Kick Flanders, Bohemia, Lombardy, Pomeranians out early on before other factions take them. Then keep good relations with France and bully the Danes. Then go for Venice, Genoa and if you wish the Sicily. Then finally kill the French. Then expand east into Hungary. Give CS or Fatimids some Hungarian lands you conquer in return for Jerusalem and you are done. Just ally with whole Iberians and English. As HRE, "strike hard early on for factions can return vengeance for minor injuries for majors they cannot". (A Moderator: All rights reserved SS6.3 quotes!! Yor are indefinitely banned IA, o_O)

[Smokey Bacon]

Do gothic knights disappear with the rest of the feudal units?

[Point Blank]

Eventually yes I think so from memory.

[midget_roxx]

Do knights disappear in SS6.1 as well?

[Caesar Clivus]

Do knights disappear in SS6.1 as well?

No. It's part of the RealRecruitment system included in 6.3 but not in 6.1

[midget_roxx]

Ah thanks. The OP didn't state whether he was using a submod which is why I got a bit confused