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  1. #1
    Okmin's Avatar In vino veritas
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    Default Superpowers

    Your thoughts on superpowers (or the superpower if you agree with the USA being the only one), like which countries are and which ones are going to be, whether "hyperpower" should be used at all, etc.

    Personally I think America is definitely a military superpower (mostly that comes from the navy and nukes) and barely holding on to economic superpower (financial crisis, national debt, trade deficit, but still the world's largest national economy). On the other hand China is a solid economic SP ('cause I'm not typing out superpower anymore) for exactly the opposite reasons except GDP, but not a very good with military power projection.
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  2. #2
    Imperial's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Superpowers

    The US is still consider an economic superpower since it can make a lot of money real fast due to having the largest consumer base in the world. The problem is the government spends it before they get it. China still pays its workers slave wages and barely has a middle class. Their government holds the money, not the people.
    Last edited by Imperial; December 01, 2010 at 09:57 PM.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Superpowers

    Quote Originally Posted by Okmin View Post
    China is a solid economic SP ('cause I'm not typing out superpower anymore)
    Simply using the word superpower would've used less words there.

    Anyway...

    Militarily the only Superpower is indeed the US.

    Economically, the US is still there. China and the EU are the two I'd say also qualify as economic superpowers. Ofcourse, the EUs had that put to the test having to bail out all the weak members (read: France and Germany have been put to the test... that's what happens when you load on on small, weak economies chaps!).

    Brazil and India are usually slated as the "up and comers" economically. China may yet become a military superpower but it doesn't appear to be their game, and the EU may also become one if it sets up a unified military.

  4. #4
    Inhuman One's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Superpowers

    France and Germany being put to the test? are you kidding me? here in the Netherlands we need to pay the most because we have a lot less citizens. Each has to pay a lot more in comparison.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Superpowers

    The US militarily has gone beyond superpower, and is a hyperpower in that respect.

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    The Dude's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Superpowers

    Quote Originally Posted by Stavroforos View Post
    The US militarily has gone beyond superpower, and is a hyperpower in that respect.
    Really? Because if things go south in the Koreas anytime soon I sincerely doubt the US would have the funds to support yet another conflict. And they're only a "hyperpower" relative to the people they're fighting. It's easy to look strong and mighty if your enemies are bearded cavemen with weapons from three generations past.

    In a war against a country like China they wouldn't be so hyper anymore.
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    Default Re: Superpowers

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    Really? Because if things go south in the Koreas anytime soon I sincerely doubt the US would have the funds to support yet another conflict. And they're only a "hyperpower" relative to the people they're fighting. It's easy to look strong and mighty if your enemies are bearded cavemen with weapons from three generations past.

    In a war against a country like China they wouldn't be so hyper anymore.
    Disagree.

  8. #8
    The Dude's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Superpowers

    Quote Originally Posted by Stavroforos View Post
    Disagree.
    Which would be interesting if you were planning to elaborate on why. If you think the China vs US debate is boring then I can name any other country. It doesn't matter. Any nation with a sufficiently advanced and trained professional military would provide the US a challenge they're not used to facing.

    The word hyperpower implies that they're so far beyond the military capacity exhibited by any other nation that noone could possibly pose a threat to them.
    Last edited by The Dude; December 02, 2010 at 09:02 AM.
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    Manco's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Superpowers

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    Really? Because if things go south in the Koreas anytime soon I sincerely doubt the US would have the funds to support yet another conflict. And they're only a "hyperpower" relative to the people they're fighting. It's easy to look strong and mighty if your enemies are bearded cavemen with weapons from three generations past.

    In a war against a country like China they wouldn't be so hyper anymore.
    Fighting two wars without instating a draft or even substantially increasing recruitment is pretty damn hyperpower-like
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Superpowers

    Quote Originally Posted by Manco View Post
    Fighting two wars without instating a draft or even substantially increasing recruitment is pretty damn hyperpower-like
    Depends on the size of your standing army, and the intensity of the conflict.
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    Default Re: Superpowers

    Quote Originally Posted by Manco View Post
    Fighting two wars without instating a draft or even substantially increasing recruitment is pretty damn hyperpower-like
    It means they have a large professional military but all militaries need funding. China could invade Taiwan tomorrow and the US wouldn't be able to do a thing about it. No funds, no combat.
    I have approximate answers and possible beliefs, and different degrees of certainty about different things, but I’m not absolutely sure of anything, and many things I don’t know anything about. But I don’t have to know an answer. I don’t feel frightened by not knowing.
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  12. #12
    Imperial's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Superpowers

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    US wouldn't be able to do a thing about it.
    Eh?

    Invading Taiwan would require a navy that could beat the US navy, no such navy exists yet.

  13. #13
    Mr. Scott's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Superpowers

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    Which would be interesting if you were planning to elaborate on why. If you think the China vs US debate is boring then I can name any other country. It doesn't matter. Any nation with a sufficiently advanced and trained professional military would provide the US a challenge they're not used to facing.

    The word hyperpower implies that they're so far beyond the military capacity exhibited by any other nation that noone could possibly pose a threat to them.
    Maybe because no other nation in the world has a military advanced or professional enough to actually stand up against the US. The only nations that have advanced and professional militaries are those of Western Europe, the Anglo-Saxon nations, and to an extent, Russia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Manco View Post
    Fighting two wars occupations without instating a draft or even substantially increasing recruitment is pretty damn hyperpower-like
    In guerilla warfare technological advantages doesn't mean crap. In occupations, all that matters is numbers.

    In conventional warfare there is no doubt that the US could beat any nation in the world anywhere (assuming no nukes of course)

    Quote Originally Posted by 10greenbottles View Post
    And also the eurofighter has weapons that hit targets over 100 miles away as a standard weapon, I don't really think it would be too difficult to sink an aircraft carrier (the Eurofighter was just an example).
    Even if it was moving and had tons of anti-missile and anti-air weaponry and a arsenal of jets with a 1000 mile range.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    Big whoop, it's still a boatload of money. I'm failing to see how my inability to use these terms correctly has any bearing on America's ability to pay for their . >_>

    Again, though, if I'm absolutely wrong about all of this then I'd rather you tell me instead of letting me know I am incapable at properly applying these terms. I already knew that, I don't study economics.

    Here's how I see it, fairly simple:
    - The US has a massive debt (and a massive national deficit, thanks, I now understand how to use these words 8D)
    - Militaries require money to operate
    - The US probably has no money to pay for another large scale, lengthy war

    Yes/no? Maybe they do? Because war is a lot cheaper than I think it is? Maybe there's a huge amount of cash stashed away specifically for the opening of yet another front? I have no idea. So I'm working with the information I have.
    So according to you, the US should have lost WW2. Got it...
    Last edited by Mr. Scott; December 02, 2010 at 06:32 PM.
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  14. #14
    High Chunker Greens's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Superpowers

    Quote Originally Posted by Stavroforos View Post
    The US militarily has gone beyond superpower, and is a hyperpower in that respect.
    On your homeground, I believe you could hold it against any nation that this world has. Unfortunately, once you start projecting all of your power across the globe, the amount of troops that you can actually field makes you look pretty pathetic to be brutally honest. There is a reason that you needed an army of 11 million to retake Japan (a tiny island nation) and Europe. I have no doubt that a country like China could defeat you if you tried to invade it with your current military. You don't have the numbers at the moment to really project power, so you aren't a hyperpower.

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    Default Re: Superpowers

    Quote Originally Posted by 10greenbottles View Post
    On your homeground, I believe you could hold it against any nation that this world has. Unfortunately, once you start projecting all of your power across the globe, the amount of troops that you can actually field makes you look pretty pathetic to be brutally honest. There is a reason that you needed an army of 11 million to retake Japan (a tiny island nation) and Europe. I have no doubt that a country like China could defeat you if you tried to invade it with your current military. You don't have the numbers at the moment to really project power, so you aren't a hyperpower.
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  16. #16

    Default Re: Superpowers

    Quote Originally Posted by Stavroforos View Post
    The US militarily has gone beyond superpower, and is a hyperpower in that respect.
    The problem with classifying the US as militarily anything is that you need to take into account munitions, projection capability, the home front, amongst other things, as well as sheer force alone. The US might've the biggest and most advanced military on the planet, a war with Iran or North Korea would be a horrible task. There's a sharp difference between theoretical military power, and it's actual application to warfare.
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  17. #17
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    Default Re: Superpowers

    Quote Originally Posted by Okmin View Post
    ...solid economic SP ('cause I'm not typing out superpower anymore)...
    Is it just me or does this count as a paradox?
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    The mustached and long-tusked walrus is most often found near the Arctic Circle, lying on the ice with hundreds of companions. These marine mammals are extremely sociable, prone to loudly bellowing and snorting at one another, but are aggressive during mating season. With wrinkled brown and pink hides, walruses are distinguished by their long white tusks, grizzly whiskers, flat flipper, and bodies full of blubber.
    Walruses use their iconic long tusks for a variety of reasons, each of which makes their lives in the Arctic a bit easier. They use them to haul their enormous bodies out of frigid waters, thus their "tooth-walking" label, and to break breathing holes into ice from below. Their tusks, which are found on both males and females, can extend to about three feet (one meter), and are, in fact, large canine teeth, which grow throughout their lives. Male walruses, or bulls, also employ their tusks aggressively to maintain territory and, during mating season, to protect their harems of females, or cows.
    The walrus' other characteristic features are equally useful. As their favorite meals, particularly shellfish, are found near the dark ocean floor, walruses use their extremely sensitive whiskers, called mustacial vibrissae, as detection devices. Their blubbery bodies allow them to live comfortably in the Arctic region—walruses are capable of slowing their heartbeats in order to withstand the polar temperatures of the surrounding waters.
    The two subspecies of walrus are divided geographically. Atlantic walruses inhabit coastal areas from northeastern Canada to Greenland, while Pacific walruses inhabit the northern seas off Russia and Alaska, migrating seasonally from their southern range in the Bering Sea—where they are found on the pack ice in winter—to the Chukchi Sea. Female Pacific walruses give birth to calves during the spring migration north.
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  18. #18
    Canuck's Avatar Foederatus
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    Default Re: Superpowers

    On the other hand China is a solid economic SP ('cause I'm not typing out superpower anymore)
    Quote Originally Posted by ♔Goodguy1066♔ View Post
    Is it just me or does this count as a paradox?
    Oxymoronic redundancy?
    Last edited by Canuck; December 03, 2010 at 06:05 PM.
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  19. #19
    Okmin's Avatar In vino veritas
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    Default Re: Superpowers

    Quote Originally Posted by Canuck View Post
    Oxymoronic redundancy?
    That.
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  20. #20
    Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Superpowers

    Green bottles, I'm not American.

    Also, the China vs. US debate has been done countless of times, there's no need to go through all of that again.

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