- Confessio -

[SeniorBatavianHorse]

OK - here it is:

I have a slightly empty glass of tawny port in my hand and a thought has drizzled into my lazy mind. Why do I haunt this Late Roman period? Why do I drift as an addict in need of the next fix - be it an obscure source or the latest piece of research? Why THIS period and not that glittering epoch of Roman legions and marble columns festooned with Senators? Or the epics of Virgil? The Histories of Tacitus and Polybius?

Why do I wander like a vagabond in these twilight atriums, as it were?

And then I realised that I am not alone. That beside me here in these ruins of Empire wander other vagabonds, other vagrants - and that we all seem drawn to this strange period where shadows echo old glories and the tattered remnants of hallowed standards are raised aloft often in vain but never with timidity - and then I wondered on you all, all you whispering ghosts who drift here among the ruins and the unstitched tapestries, what drives you to haunt these dying days of Rome, of Empire, and finally of Legend?

I visit daily this forum and view often with marvel the posts and the debates and the nervous and sometimes fraught discussions about this period we all are drawn to so much - and wonder that we strive - for strive it is - among the details and the debates which obsess us. We raise questions and reveal points, sometimes with an authority who thunders behind us like a god, and always we fall into questions of this and that about the epoch we are drawn to -

And yet this damned port in my hand has made me realise that really perhaps we do not know yet among ourselves what it is that draws us here like moths to a flame . . .

We, in a sense, spark among ourselves but have yet to see the flame which burns among all of us . . .

We are a embattled group, to be sure, we that dwell in this dying period - not for us the debates about the hastati, the Marian reforms, the granting of Roman citizenship to all the inhabitants of the Empire, and so forth . . . To us, is that unglittering epoch of the unwritten and the least known. We are an outcast brethren perhaps - drawn to - what, I wonder?

So, my sloshing mind has this mad idea - that we introduce ourselves! Oh I am not talking about whether we feel Roman cavalry did this or that in the Late Roman period, or whether these barbarians, or those barbarians, did this or why, but simply why we are here at all!

Did I mention port is in my hand? I did? Then of course you will forgive my emotional tone - even if I confess this port is of course metaphorical and not actual in any real sense. I write as if. Nothing more.

So I want to open a very specific thread here and now. A thread where we actually introduce ourselves as the vagabonds we are.

So I suggest the following: a single post from each and every member who haunts these forums and also hunts in this period for what little scraps there actually are - a confession, if you will! A stepping into a little light and offering what it is we are and not what we are debating. I may be naive but perhaps we do not yet know ourselves.

I will begin of course - a single post now - I will add nothing later and I will not debate other posts. This is a confessio nothing more. An introduction, actually, glass in hand.

Will any of you join me, I wonder? Let's be honest. We are an odd Companye are we not? Driven to fall in amongst eachother around a campfire of shadows and half-forgotten tales?

A single post then - nothing more. No debate. No follow up. No discussion. Just a declaration. A confession.

And for myself? It is simple really. I live in a country which fell from Rome and was savagely inundated as a result. My myths are screwed into that sundering. Out of it came King Arthur. Out of it came the idea of a lost cause. That brought me into the later Roman period and those legions which fate now never names.

Little men strive harder for they have more to gain and lose.

Out of that simple and perhaps naive poetic rose my great love for this period - read my AARs and that is all you will find in them.

That is why I will always be here in this forum.

I will wake up in the morning and rue this perhaps as the metaphorical headache thunders through my head like the drums of the Alemanni marching to face Julian at Argentoratum - or will I?

Like all vagrants, it is always secretly heart-warming to meet a fellow on the least-trodden path - even if we spit at eachother like snakes!

A single post then - no follow up. No comment. No debate. An introduction, nothing more.

And as with all confessions, the act is far more important than the matter, is it not?

[julianus heraclius]

Great Idea SBH,

Here’s my confessio then.

I have been drawn to a period that some may say was in decline, the end of days, or twilight of empire. All these things may be true but also equally not true as modern historians have noted.

But for me, it is the idea of a great empire ebbing away, like an old well worn carpet fraying at the edges only for the fraying to continue at a greater and greater pace.

Change is inevitable, as all empires rise, so they fall. It is the “fall”, the twilight, that most fascinates me. I am drawn to it like a moth to the flame. There is something about endings that have always intrigued me, as sense of loss or foreboding perhaps, fighting against the inevitable, the hero who fights in vain but fights all the same I have always found inspiring.

As Jean Paul Sarte once said, it is the man who in spite of knowing that life is inherently meaningless but carries on nonetheless is the true hero. This statement in many ways explains my love of the late period, a period where great social changes were occurring, a transition between the classical and medieval period began, letting go of the old and embracing the new. It is both a solemn time but also one of great anticipation.

The lack of written regard adds a mystique to the period enveloping it like a celtic mist so as to become a lost kingdom, a forgotten land.

All these things makes for me the late roman period a truly wonderful period to explore and try to re-create via the mods we develop.

[Valentinian Victor]

Like SBH I too live in the land of Albion, which still has a facination for all things Roman.

My interest in the ancient period was stirred as a lad by my grandparents, who I lived with, buying me a copy of Donald Featherstones book 'Wargaming' back in 1966. I became hooked on ancient, napoleonic and ACW wargaming and from that time I began to do a lot of research into those periods (Boy, was I a geek or what!).

I was very interested in both the Alexanderian Macedonian period as well as the Roman but since the mid 1970's I've been drawn to the Late Roman period mainly due to my enduring love of Ammianus!

I've amassed a huge collection of books, papers, journal and magazine articles, and haunt a number of sites dedicated to all things Roman, as well as being a member of the Society for the Promotion of Roman Studies.

I still do ancient wargaming, using the DBMM V2.0 ruleset and guess what, yep, I use a Late Roman army in competitions!

[Juvenal]

I was initially attracted to this period by the mellifluous prose of SBH.

But once I had arrived I realised that this is actually a much more interesting time than period of the rise of Rome. In the West, it encompasses the transition of history into myth and the beginning of the Dark Ages. And these myths are strong! They are the ones we learned as children, and by that token have an added resonance because they have become an indelible part of our very being, entwined about our developing psyches, and in some cases now just as much a part of us as our real experiences.

I recently read the Silmarillion, which had lain on my shelf this last twenty years after an abortive attempt by my earlier self to start it. It was perhaps worth the wait, because now I appreciate much more the material that Tolkien was drawing upon for his work, it was none other than the sagas and mythology of the Old Norse, the culture that replaced the Romano-British in my own British Isles. Indeed, it is no accident that Tolkien is also famous for his translation of Beowulf! Once I had made it past the interminable lists and lineages that introduce Tolkien's world, I discovered a linked series of tragic tales that felt very familiar. It is a form of story where you know from the start that all will end in failure, destruction and death, yet all the while you hope against hope that the doom fated to come can somehow be transformed so that it is not permanent, or at least that some can escape its grasp.

Anyway, not only does the Silmarillion echo the sagas which are the foundation of English Literature, but the period of the late Empire seems to share a similar arc, certainly if you choose to take the Romantic viewpoint. Every corner of Empire has a rich history, its defenders, though few, have great stores of strength to draw upon, yet constant betrayals make their eventual fate a certainty. Also, because of the gradual decline of written history at the hands of the Germanic tribes with their oral tradition, there is incredible scope for creating one's own stories against the backdrop of the eclipse of Roman Civilisation.

So, here I am. I know a little, but there is much of which I am ignorant. And what's more, there is no real prospect of anyone ever fully understanding this period when there are so few sources. So I can be confident that the consensus is going to shift, perhaps many times as new discoveries are made. I am looking forward to learning more.

[juvenus]

Historia est magistra vitae....or at least they told us so.....

I'm here to learn. It cannot be put more simply. Even though my true orientation and affinities have nothing to do with history, still I've always believed a man should not escape any sort of knowledge.

The more we learn the more our souls and bodies advance. But why do I wander amidst these misty swamps of Late Roma? A challenge, I guess. A challenge to myself, brought forward by-myself.
It's the very same challenge a man feels when facing a crossroads in a dark. No sign. No traffic marker. And yet-he needs to choose a route. The late Roma is a gigantic crossroad. There are plenty of directions. All but a few will take you to your objective. Others, one may wonder? Others will send you to a land of unknown. A land of mysterious events and, even more mysterious, protagonists.

So, beware ya unaware traveler! You may have all time in the world to think and calculate, however, no guarantees will be issued on this voyage! And if ya, by any chance, end up disappointed with the trip-there will be no money back service.

Exploring this world of decay and growth, devolution and evolution is like choosing a route. All will take you to a land of unknown. Difference is that some will ultimately bring you to a solid ground and calm, sunny weather. But those routes will be rare ones indeed! For the most will launch you into the scorching deserts of Sahara or the viciously raging storms of Atlantic.

Yet, some routes may have additional crossroads along the way....You may never know what danger or splendorous lay ahead. No one will force you to choose though! Those of weak heart, afraid of this gamble may always turn away from the misty, clandestine corridors of the Late Roma....Those should stick to lorica segmentata, columns of Trajan and memoirs of Caesar.

But I won't be among them. I will embark on this voyage.

Even when I end up safe and sound, on the solid ground of Moesia far away from dangerous land where unknown tribes are looming, heavily protected by Sirmium and the mighty fortresses of Singidunum, I still wonder what would happen if only I took an other direction....

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

I was brought to the late roman era, and later these forums, by the show barbarians II (the one about the huns) on the history channel.

Like juvenus above, I'm here to learn and offer what insight (albeit limited) I can.

I explore these dark, foreboeding, ancient swamps to find the secret that lies in wait in them. To come upon a vast wealth of knowledge, open a new door, and discover the horrible truth.
To put it plainly, I have 2 reasons:
1: To discover the true cause of the fall of the Roman Empire.
2: To give you my own thoughts and opinions on why rome fell.

There is my answer, my fellow hobos. This is why explore this dark realm, where you recieve only hints of the truth, but the real answers lie in the heart of the great structure inside.

[ray243]

The reason why I loved the Late Empire is due to the fact that it is still a period that is unknown to many people in the general public. The joy of learning that many assumptions that I once held is totally wrong is something that cannot be easily explained.

Which I why I find the third century to be such an interesting period for me to study.

[Lionheart]

Well i also join you from the lands of the Lusitanii, a great foe for the early roman invaders.

Again lighting a smoke i read the preview post and think.

Why do i like or have interest in the late roman empire? Perhaps a dream from another life a existence that is swalled by the darkness of ths past.

I live over the remnants of a roman town called Aeminium one of the several oppida in the lands in the far borders of the empire.

Perhaps i wonder about what life will be? Perhaps a more natural life without the modern-day commodities, perhaps a life more peaceful or not...
Feeling the air, feeling the cold and wondering about tomorrow.
Perhaps in some other time others have wondered about the same thing...well except the smoke that is...

I always wondered about a small city in the banks of the Tiber and how that was possible to that stablish one of the most powerful empires that ever existed in earth.
Perhaps because of is willpower, perhaps because of their own ambition or the mabition of their leaders, perhaps because their foes are inferior to him, perhaps due to is militar power and their capacity to endure and conquer hard challenges.

Then like all the empires they begun to fall. I think that when any empire is in their golden age they already begun their falling.
However one thing that always exerced some curiosity in my was how they will react to the end.

The changed, they cease their militar expansion, they suffer decline because their morals and primordial valors are gone. The guilty..perhaps christianism and the ambition of a man called Constantin the Great.

After that we have another change: peoples that come from outside begun to carve and wish to carve their own powers inside the lands of the empire. They try to fought back but their time is gone.
The emperors are puppets, the army loose is national character, the people feel the emperor far far away, the taxes are unfair. The peasants loose their freedom.

So i liked this because we can see is this time how a great empire come to nothing. I believe that's because of that that i liked this late roman period.

[Renatus]

Why do I study the later Roman period or, more accurately, the army of the later Roman period? I have spent some time thinking about this since this thread was opened but have come to no definite conclusion.

My interest in the Roman army generally had its genesis during my schooldays and was maintained in a desultory sort of way for a few years after I left school. I began to study the subject seriously in 1970. Then, so it seemed, the emphasis of Roman army studies was on the Principate, with a nod towards the Republic; the army of the later Empire was very much the Poor Relation. Nevertheless, the second half of the decade saw me well established on the path that I follow to this day, although without entirely ignoring the earlier periods.

Why should this be so? Perhaps I liked a challenge. Although, at that time, the evidence was available, it was not always easily accessable. There were no works of synthesis except the relevant chapters of Jones' Later Roman Empire; there were certainly no full-length books on the subject such as students of the army of the Principate had in Webster's The Roman Imperial Army or Watson's The Roman Soldier. Or maybe it was the mystery. At the end of the 2nd century, the army's Augustan antecedents were still recognisable; in the 4th, it was very different in organisation, armour and weaponry. What was the reason for the change and who was responsible? Or perhaps it was because the later Roman army was so damned peculiar. Who could imagine a Roman of any earlier period wearing a helmet such as Berkasovo No.1? Then again, the reason might have nothing to do with the subject itself and might lie somewhere in my psyche: that streak of non-conformity that sometimes surfaces and prompts me to challenge received wisdom and to espouse causes that are not universally popular.

I can offer no definitive explanation. Like Macbeth's dagger, it eludes my grasp but still it leads me onward. Perhaps the answer is the simplest of all: the subject interests me - and that is it! To quote Keats, entirely out of context:

" . . . that is all
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know."

[legio_XX]

I have allways been intrigued by being on the defensive yet doomed to fall, the thought of the great Roman empire in decay and dispare with a glimpse of glory as its former self struggles to survive.

The roman legions battered, waves of enemies pooring over, senators and governors corrupt vying for one anothers fall as the state crumbles. It really is the perfect drama!


So dark as the candle flickers enveloped by shadow.

[Julianus Flavius]

I just like trying to pinpoint where it all went wrong, and imagine how much better the world would be if it hadn't.

[Stigmata]

I have allways been intrigued by being on the defensive yet doomed to fall, the thought of the great Roman empire in decay and dispare with a glimpse of glory as its former self struggles to survive.

The roman legions battered, waves of enemies pooring over, senators and governors corrupt vying for one anothers fall as the state crumbles. It really is the perfect drama!


So dark as the candle flickers enveloped by shadow.

exactly, and even with that chaos and decay you can see the rise of true 'heroes' (I prefer 'people who bravely fought against adversity') like Stilico or Aetius.

[Echbart]

My passion is history and most interesting and heart moving times are when everything changes. Thats why i feel connected with late antiquity.

Im an archaeologist who lives in country full of memories of late antiquity and defense of Italy. When you climb on a hill and there see remains of old walls and terraces you sit down and close your eyes memory wakes up.

These were dark and hard times. Empire tried to survive, battles fought , whole tribes passing thus and there, you never know what will happen. And there always a hope that something good will be saved and passed unto the dark age that will come if you fail.

And we learn from this for our today and tomorrow to be better.

[Constantius]

This thread has only just come to my attention. Firstly I am impressed with your poetics SBH are you sure you don't like Virgil? For me this period, becomes all the more fascinating by the day! But unlike the rest you my Amici, I am also, dare I say? Obsessed with the late republic and the principate, in particular the Antonines (de gustibus non est disputandum). It might have something to do with the fact that i am reading classics at university. But there is something about the late antique era, that draws me. As a whole the study of the Roman empire is a fascinating jigsaw puzzle, thousands of little pieces all put together (adde parvum parvo magnus acervus erit) telling a tale of one of mankinds most fascinating, creative and sometimes dark periods. Oh yes and I reside just outside Iondinivm

[Knonfoda]

"Why do you look like a barbarian then?"

Was the question I was asked at my first late Roman re-enactment event at Arbeia as I engaged with the public for the first time. As much as I delight in looking down upon the general populace's ignorance, I could not help but think that he was right. What business does a man wearing a pileus hat, a simple and cheap coptic tunic, leggings, boots and a heavy round shield and a lancea have being a Roman?

You see my friends, let me tell you a story. I do not write this with the proverbial glass of wine in hand like my friend SBH over there, no no, I write it with the literal, factual and physical glass at hand as I put the proverbial pen to paper. Yes I hear you say, its early for that, but I do not concern myself with such things. What I do concern myself with is Rome and its empire. I never cared much, or at all for Rome. My father is an archaeologist/geologist, so I've always heard a lot about the Romans as a child, but I never cared much. It was only until I played Rome Total War and saw films like Gladiator and Spartacus in my later years that I thought... wow, there really was something.

So I decided to research, study, read, watch documentaries, immerse myself into the Roman world. And I found the more I immersed myself, the more I was amazed, fascinated, moved, by the events that unfolded thousands of years before we ever set foot on this wretched earth. I suppose it was also that time I became a re-enactor. I've never thought much of social mores and certain views, especially for someone my age, being a re-enactor isn't exactly 'hip' but I didn't care back then and I certainly don't care now. Admittedly that was years ago and my first event was a bit intense, too rehearsed and drilled to precision, I didn't enjoy it as much as I thought I would.

Something interesting happened the year after though. I was examining a late roman era spatha on an online store, but could not see a price for it. It was then that I decided to 'place an order' to see how much it would cost, with the intention of cancelling it at the last moment. I found out it was worth over £110, and proceeded to cancel the order. Much to my surprise, two weeks later a spatha was delivered to my doorstep. I promptly e-mailed the company regarding the mistake, requesting instructions on how to return it. There was no reply. I did so again. Still no reply. This continued for two weeks, but for whatever reason, my e-mails were not responded to. I don't know why, but the Gods seemed to smile on me and I begrudgingly held on to the spatha. I have it to this day.

As if by design, a few weeks later I accepted a very friendly man's offer to go horse riding in the Roman manner, without stirrups, at a late roman event held in Arbeia. I attended, and I must say it was a much better affair. The people were friendly and a much more diverse bunch, there were girls my age (what a surprise! Pretty ones too!) and it was all a lot of fun. We drank ourselves silly into the late hours of the night and I had the distinct honour of re-living a banquet/symposium in the very same rebuilt triclinarium that the prefect of Arbeia used to entertain guests oh so long ago. What a wonderful experience, the wine, the candles, the silly banter and the innocent and then not to so innocent flirting... all good fun.

I was also at this event I explained to the member of the public that due to a declining financial situation, the dilution of authority and the sheer number and scale of barbarian incursions, the Empire was no longer as it was and that these circumstances had repercussions all the way down to the military and the rank and file soldiers. Armour was now expensive, and not all could afford it. I also distinctly remember how sad I was that was the case.

It was thinking of this that I decided to give Barbarian Invasion a try, the thought of holding an empire together and preventing its collapse. I liked the challenge, I thought it was much more difficult than starting from scratch. What would you do if someone gave you a crumbling empire to look after? Surely it is harder to deal with an empire on the verge of collapse than simply preventing it from getting into such a state in the first place?

A year later, and I'm at Segedunum. I get my first insight into what being run down by cavalry would be like. At a standard drill exercise in front of a crowd, I hide behind my shield to protect myself from the rider's slashes with the blunt sword, only to put myself in front of the horse, which casually moves forward throwing me to the ground without any effort on its part. I am unharmed. But the thought persists in my head, wow, its *that easy* to get knocked down by a horse. If it was a charging horse I would stand no chance. So was my first glimpse of life as a soldier on the front lines.

I read a book by Boris Johnson once, The Dream That Was Rome. Now, I don't care much for the man himself or his party, but he did make some good points. The EU today fails to achieve what the Roman Empire managed thousands of years in the past. Even at the EU, the French keep to the French, the British to the British and the Spanish to themselves also. You would think peace and prosperity would be a better incentive than the violence the Romans offered, but apparently it is not. Nationalism and greed are powerful motivators. And today, we stand on the brink of seeing that great enterprise plunge deep into the abyss. I'm a misanthropist you see, and events like these seem to confirm my suspicions that humanity is sadly doomed.

Hmmn.. this is an excellent Falernian I would say. They say these days Italian wine's aren't all that good, but this one I must commend. I continue.

December 9th 2010. Protests erupt in all major english cities. Here, I get my second glimpse of the life of a soldier in the front lines. Except this time I am the barbarian, the mob, the ones to be trampled underfoot by the might of Rome. Or better, their tactics, still in use two thousand years later. It's amazing that a compact mass of literally hundred of angry people cannot move a small line of perhaps a few dozen heavily armoured and shielded police officers with batons. True, we were unarmed, we never stood a chance, but still, I can see why the barbarians had so much trouble. I was there when their line simply advanced slowly on ours, battering their way with their bludgeons, feeling the push, shouting 'Stand your ground!' even as I knew nobody a few ranks ahead of me having fingers crushed and their heads smashed in would in their right mind do what I suggested. Suddenly, to add insult to injury, their lines dispersed and then came the cavalry. The REAL, literal cavalry at that. If there was any morale whatsoever left in those hundreds of young souls, then it quickly dissipated the minute those horses charged into us and all fled in all manner of directions. It was the second time I found myself in such a situation, except this time it was no accident, they really wanted to hurt us.

So you see, I have a unique perspective in my own limited way of what being in the front lines of a battle must have been like. The adrenaline, the fear, the anger, the frustration. It was at a later date I began playing Invasio Barbarorum, something I continue to this day through my AAR. Philosopher emperors such as Aurelius and Julian have always fascinated me, the wise, kind(ish) and knowledgeable leader who rules for the common good and not only his or his immediate inner circle's benefit. Something we lack these days.

So, there are my tenuous and vastly diverging reasons for my admiration and interest in the Romans. Some of the events that have shaped my life, my belief that the current world is a very boring and depressing place where there is nothing left to explore, nothing of intrinsic worth to do. We work, we accumulate wealth for its own sake, we die. The circle continues. At least back then, the world was new, there was the prospect of a strong, united and violent but civilized Rome. The stirrings of world government which continues to elude us to this day. What if my friends? What if Rome had not fallen? What if the dark ages had been avoided? Where would we be today? For all these reasons I am fascinated by them... and hark back to the day... wishing for a time machine somehow, even if my life there would forever be limited to that of an observer.

There you have it, my complete, unabridged and unadulterated confessio. I could go on of course, but my falernian is out.

[Gen.jamesWolfe]

well, I just like the fact that it is different from today-another world almost. I suppose that is called a passion for history, but the thing is, that's what I like about going to new places, learning about weird and extinct organisms, etc. they're different, new, and exciting to check out. I guess it is probably because I grew up in a small city, with an overprotective family-especially my mom-seeing only the same (Arab) culture, then reading about the fact that not every culture is like the Arab one. it breeds curiosity I suppose.

you're talking about a guy who, when he was 5, was already trying to figure out what the Earth looked like on his own.

yeah, that's about it.

[Stath's]

I like all those who became the Great Losers. Persians, Carthage, Seleucids, Western Romans, Byzantines, Aztecs.

[Chilbudius]

It was a time of big changes, transformation, time of the painful break of an old world so that a new one can be born, although contemporaries didn't see it that way, but rather as the end of days. When I was a kid and there wasn't as much graphic depictions of this era as these days, and reading historical books, I always wondered how could Roman Empire exist for so long, but stay almost the same in almost every aspect, other than political stability...like everyday habits, life in the cities, clothing, military equipment, etc...It was a great experience and still is reading and researching about that era of diversity, military and cultural clashes, unrest... Keyword would still be the change of everything.

[R.I.P.SPQR107BC]

Words can hardly describe what intelligent, imaginative and well read people write here sharing their fascination with the late Roman Empire and Rome as a whole. The best way to describe my personal attachment to the late period is an analogy - by way of example, why am I currently, and like other people, reading about the Federal Reserve and its policies? Because it affects my life and that of many people and it is changing the world we live in. The strange attachment to the Late period crept in my head stronger and stronger over the years but I couldn't put my finger on the cause of this. Then slowly there appeared this unshakeable gut feeling that we are (so to speak) living in the late period of the Roman Empire. It feels so good to know that so many other people share this enchantment for the late period. And my gut tells me the reason could very well be that when given the same conditions many people will reach the same conclusions and will like the same periods of history, the reason for which we can't see because it is so much bigger than us temporally. We like it because we learn lessons from it. We like it because we sympathize with people who had the same fate. Before our conscious knows it our subconscious has already drawn the parallels. All of this outside the question of whether it is true. The mind assumes so and won't let go. Then comes the question what would I have done to save Rome? What if they hadn`t burned that damned library. When exactly, as Julianus Flavius put it, is the point where it all went wrong? Then there comes the possibility of complex genetic memories and the many-worlds intepretation. Then there is also Philip K. Dick - The Empire never ended. And all the while the result is that you've made a friend. Lots of those. Many long dead and some living. And you see little difference between yourself and them. Between the you and me that pondered the same things in the 4th century AD, or at the start of the Greek Dark Ages.

[nichita1998]

Guys? I am here for the game o.0