Using fire effectively

[Scelesticfish]

I was wondering how to use Mangonel's effectivly in both seige defence and open field warfare and how to use Greek Firethrowers effectively in both siege defense and open field warfare. Because whenever I use firethrowers they get mowed down my flanking enemy cavalry. In sieges they seem to refuse to fire upon the enemy, even though that little bow and arrow symbol is on their unit card.

[midget_roxx]

Mangonels are very picky when firing over walls. You need to position them far enough away from the walls which can be very hard sometimes when you don't have any alleys to put them in or have huge walls which seem to limit mangonels hugely. To use them in the open battle field just put them as close to your troops as possible and behind so they don't hit them when the barrels explode super early. Of course your archers will always be at risk when using mangonels but that is one of the risks you need to take.

Not sure about flamethrowers since I've never used them

[Double A]

Use Magonels like you would use trebuchets. I'm not sure about in sieges without wooden walls, but in field battles, just stick 'em near your front line, and make sure that you're on a hill and as far away from the enemy as possible.

With flamethrowers... you need to engage the enemy with a unit so they don't get annihilated. Preferably, a cheap one, because friendly fire is very likely. In sieges, engage from the side of the gates and light up up from the alley. In field battles, just flank the enemy with them and burninate away. If you're having trouble with cavalry, chase them or kill them with your own cavalry. I prefer to keep a unit or two of spearmen in reserve so I don't take huge casualties if they have elite cavalry and I'm stuck with mailed or feudal knights.

[Silverheart]

Mangonels are very specialized equipment, they´re only supposed to kill enemies, and are as good as worthless against walls.
In siege, you should place them on the second nearest street from the gate (that way, they WILL be able to fire over the walls, and the street around the gate is free for other troops - wath out for duds, though, they may cause friendly fire). Never besiege with only Mangonels, use them after the enemy has fled the walls, and crowd all of them in a street, then bombard the center square (unless the are, like, TONNES of enemies, then it might be best to let the mangonels spread some fear before moving in the rest of your troops)

Firethrowers are really cool and powerful, but they have very obvious weak spots, making them vulnerable and hard to master.
I have never used them in the defense of a settlement before, but I would send them out through the gate at the beginning, and let them guard the area just outside the gate (move them a bit ahead at first, to make sure the gate closes behind them) while being protected by archers up on the walls.
Or they could be used by being placed right inside a wall, where they could just sit and wait for the enemy to ram through before they open up a can of HELLFIRE in the narrow gateway...
When attacking a settlement, use them only after other troops have taken control of the outer wall. They can be used by advancing along the enemy streets with som heavy infantry behind them, burning away all enemy attempts of halting you and then retreating to let the infantry handle the rest.
In field battle, they are best in a defensive position. I like placing them in the middle in front of my infantry, with archers on their flanks. If you have two or three units of them, they´ll be able to flame back any enemies (and if not, just charge the infantry in, and they´ll start running pretty soon ^::^)
They also work well in combination with mangonels and archers:
Use Mangonels to weaken the enemy at long range
Advance and let the archers fire - that should cause the enemy to start moving against you
Let the Firethrowers mow down the charging enemies.
You´ll need considerable numbers for that to work, however... For more info on the Firethrowers, there is a thread which is not very old about that very subject

[Il Medico]

In a custom battle I defended a city from a full stack army of Antioch (super heavy infantry and knights etc) with just 5 firethrowers and 1 vanguarian guard. I had the fire thrower form a semi circle (one wide enough that they would not hit each other) and had the Vangurains stand behind the center one. All their units died or were routed without me engaging in melee at all.

[Scelesticfish]

Thanks, Silverheart, that bit about the Mangonels helped plenty but I'm actually mostly interested in using flamethrowers in defending the gate, instead of having them be outside the walls and be susceptible to long range enemy archers.
I've tryed positioning them on the side of the gate and have some heavy infantry flank the enemy soldiers rushing in, but one enemy unit (most of the time it's cavalry) manages to break away from the fight to attack the firethrowers, and they're not quite quick enough to run behind the spears I may have placed behind, or the get rammed up against the spears as they run.

[Ishan]

Excellent video thread on Greek flame throwers.

[Il Medico]

Shots of how awesome greek fire is:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Please put image in spoilers.

[Double A]

Shots of how awesome greek fire is:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Please put image in spoilers.

No offense, but anything better than peasants with gold chevrons and bronze weapons and armor is likely going to wipe the floor with anything.

Unless the enemy has the Holy Banana of Jerusalem, anyway.

[Il Medico]

No offense, but anything better than peasants with gold chevrons and bronze weapons and armor is likely going to wipe the floor with anything.

Unless the enemy has the Holy Banana of Jerusalem, anyway.

Well, in fairness, the enemy had the same. I just wanted to make sure i didn't lose.

[Alex-Warhammer]

Ya, they are very specelised units , and they can be devestating in the right conditions, but put the flamies in anything other than a bottle neck or use as a cheap "cover your retreat unit" then they'll charge them.

For the magonels, they're useless after the "meeting in the field march" unless you engage the enemy with cheap units and let the magonels just burn the lot.

[Scelesticfish]

Alright, thanks for all the help guys!

[Ishan]

You're Welcome.

[Sitalkes]

What about trebuchets, ballistas and other forms of artillery - if you want to bash the walls or doors down, should you use fire or stone for ammunition - I know that firey ammunition is less accurate, and good against human targets, but does it do more damage to walls and doors that non-firey ammunition?

[Silverheart]

The flaming shots do Less damage to buildings, and has area effect on human targets.
Against buildings it´s better to use stone ammo.
The same goes for Bombard cannons - Fire against enemy troops, Stone against enemy buildings.

Sometimes I like to use the flaming ammunition against enemy towers, just for the pleasure of seeing the shots that miss fly out over the enemy settlement and set random buildings aflame!