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  1. #1

    Default Signs from the Before Time

    A preliminary result perhaps, but a possible rival to Inflation:

    COSMIC REBIRTH
    Circular patterns in the universe's pervasive background radiation suggest the Big Bang was only the latest of many
    By Ron Cowen

    Most cosmologists trace the birth of the universe to the Big Bang 13.7 billion years ago. But a new analysis of the relic radiation generated by that explosive event suggests the universe got its start eons earlier and has cycled through myriad episodes of birth and death, with the Big Bang merely the most recent in a series of starting guns.
    That startling notion, proposed by theoretical physicist Roger Penrose of the University of Oxford in England and Vahe Gurzadyan of the Yerevan Physics Institute and Yerevan State University in Armenia, goes against the standard theory of cosmology known as inflation.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    The researchers base their findings on circular patterns they discovered in the cosmic microwave background, the ubiquitous microwave glow left over from the Big Bang. The circular features indicate that the cosmos itself circles through epochs of endings and beginnings, Penrose and Gurzadyan assert. The researchers describe their controversial findings in an article posted at arXiv.org on November 17.
    The circular features are regions where tiny temperature variations in the otherwise uniform microwave background are smaller than average. Those features, Penrose said, cannot be explained by the highly successful inflation theory, which posits that the infant cosmos underwent an enormous growth spurt, ballooning from something on the scale of an atom to the size of a grapefruit during the universe’s first tiny fraction of a second. Inflation would erase such patterns.
    “The existence of large-scale coherent features in the microwave background of this form would appear to contradict the inflationary model and would be a very distinctive
    signature of Penrose's model” of a cyclic universe, comments cosmologist David Spergel of Princeton University. But, he adds, “The paper does not provide enough detail about the analysis to assess the reality of these circles.”
    Penrose interprets the circles as providing a look back, past the glass wall of the most recent Big Bang, into the universe’s previous episode, or “aeon,” as he calls it. The circles, he suggests, were generated by collisions between supermassive black holes that occurred during this earlier aeon. The colliding black holes would have created a cacophony of gravitational waves — ripples in spacetime due to the acceleration of the giant masses. Those waves would have been spherical and uniformly distributed.
    According to the detailed mathematics worked out by Penrose, when the uniform distribution of gravitational waves from the previous aeon entered the current aeon, they were converted into a pulse of energy. The pulse provided a uniform kick to the allotment of dark matter, the invisible material that accounts for more than 80 percent of the mass of the cosmos.
    “The dark matter material along the burst therefore has this uniform character,” says Penrose. “This is what is seen as a circle in our cosmic microwave background sky, and it should look like a fairly uniform circle.”
    Each circle has a lower-than-average variation in temperature, which is just what he and Gurzadyan found when they analyzed data from NASA’s orbiting Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe, or WMAP, which scanned the entire sky for nine years, and the balloon-borne BOOMERANG experiment, which studied microwave background over a smaller fraction of the heavens.
    Because the team found similar circular features with two different detectors, Penrose says it’s unlikely he and his colleagues are being fooled by instrumental noise or other artifacts.
    But Spergel says he is concerned that the team has not accounted for variations in the noise level of WMAP data acquired over different parts of the sky. WMAP examined different sky regions for different amounts of time. Maps of the microwave background generated from those regions studied the longest would have lower noise and smaller recorded variations in the temperature of the microwave glow. Those lower-noise maps could artificially produce the circles that Penrose and Gurzadyan ascribe to their model of a cyclic universe, Spergel says.
    A new, more detailed map of the cosmic microwave background, now being conducted by the European Space Agency’s Planck mission, could provide a more definitive test of the theory, Penrose says.
    http://www.sciencenews.org/view/gene...Cosmic_rebirth

    http://arxiv.org/abs/1011.3706 (A précis by the authors)

    http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1011/1011.3706.pdf (The paper itself. Tried to read it — My head exploded… most inconvenient.)
    Last edited by skh1; November 26, 2010 at 03:59 PM.

    "You know… the thing" - President Joseph R. Biden, Jr., vaguely alluding to the Declaration of Independence


  2. #2

    Default Re: Signs from the Before Time

    We dont have enough knowledge about the universe to make assumptions this grand. Our (human) civilization cant even make self-propelled space craft yet. How do astronomers know if that really is the echo of a dead universe? It's probably caused by a process we are not aware of.

  3. #3
    Elfdude's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: Signs from the Before Time

    They don't they're attempting to explain it with a theory based on evidence, you know the whole thing that science does. If there's evidence for it there's a theory having to do with it.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Signs from the Before Time

    There is no solid evidence that a universe existed before this one. I just think that the 2 profs who came up with this are jumping the gun.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Signs from the Before Time

    This is the first instance I'm aware of where a theory about what came before the Big Bang is based on observation.
    A new, more detailed map of the cosmic microwave background, now being conducted by the European Space Agency’s Planck mission, could provide a more definitive test of the theory, Penrose says.

    "You know… the thing" - President Joseph R. Biden, Jr., vaguely alluding to the Declaration of Independence


  6. #6
    Elfdude's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: Signs from the Before Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Fingy View Post
    There is no solid evidence that a universe existed before this one.
    Quite clearly you missed reading the article. Further dark flow, cosmic background radiation both demonstrate that there may be alternate universes. Alternate universes are already predicted by current scientific theory (some of them) meaning observation is lining up with theory which is a very strong indicator that the hypothesis of alternate universes is not only possible but is demanded to explain observations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fingy View Post
    I just think that the 2 profs who came up with this are jumping the gun.
    It's possible, but as of right now there's not really a competing theory with matching observations this accurate.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Signs from the Before Time

    There is no solid evidence that a universe existed before this one. I just think that the 2 profs who came up with this are jumping the gun.
    Competing scientific idea's are to be welcomed when they are based upon real evidence. As of right now the standard big bang model doesn't seem to account for these features and so these professors have done good to work to bring this to light.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Signs from the Before Time

    We're seriously talking about Multiverses?

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  9. #9

    Default Re: Signs from the Before Time

    Conformal cyclic cosmology, actually. Multiverse theory is something different.
    Here is Dr. Penrose's own exegesis of his theory:
    http://accelconf.web.cern.ch/accelco...S/THESPA01.PDF (Tried to read it — My head exploded… why does that keep happening?)
    Last edited by skh1; November 28, 2010 at 07:47 PM. Reason: added additional link (which insofar as it is being added would ipso facto make it additional, I suppose)

    "You know… the thing" - President Joseph R. Biden, Jr., vaguely alluding to the Declaration of Independence


  10. #10
    Agent Miles's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Signs from the Before Time

    Actually, Neil Turock asked if the universe could be recycling between Big Bangs back in the ‘90’s, based on the current value for the cosmological constant being lower than it theoretically should be. Penrose’s perfect circles found in the WMAP and BOOMERANG data really look suspiciously artificial. Hmmm.

    http://www.cosmolearning.com/courses/roger-penrose-conformal-cyclic-cosmology-ideas-and-current-observational-status/

    http://www.soulphysics.org/2009/06/penrose-in-pittsburgh.html

    Unfortunately, Penrose hasn't collected enough data to confirm or disconfirm his hypothesis.”
    An army of rabbits led by a lion will always overcome an army of lions led by a rabbit. Napoleon

  11. #11

    Default Re: Signs from the Before Time

    It's just Ctulhu farting.
    Quote Originally Posted by A.J.P. Taylor
    Peaceful agreement and government by consent are possible only on the basis of ideas common to all parties; and these ideas must spring from habit and from history. Once reason is introduced, every man, every class, every nation becomes a law unto itself; and the only right which reason understands is the right of the stronger. Reason formulates universal principles and is therefore intolerant: there can be only one rational society, one rational nation, ultimately one rational man. Decisions between rival reasons can be made only by force.





    Quote Originally Posted by H.L Spieghel
    Is het niet hogelijk te verwonderen, en een recht beklaaglijke zaak, Heren, dat alhoewel onze algemene Dietse taal een onvermengde, sierlijke en verstandelijke spraak is, die zich ook zo wijd als enige talen des werelds verspreidt, en die in haar bevang veel rijken, vorstendommen en landen bevat, welke dagelijks zeer veel kloeke en hooggeleerde verstanden uitleveren, dat ze nochtans zo zwakkelijk opgeholpen en zo weinig met geleerdheid verrijkt en versiert wordt, tot een jammerlijk hinder en nadeel des volks?
    Quote Originally Posted by Miel Cools
    Als ik oud ben wil ik zingen,
    Oud ben maar nog niet verrot.
    Zoals oude bomen zingen,
    Voor Jan Lul of voor hun god.
    Ook een oude boom wil reizen,
    Bij een bries of bij een storm.
    Zelfs al zit zijn kruin vol luizen,
    Zelfs al zit zijn voet vol worm.
    Als ik oud ben wil ik zingen.

    Cò am Fear am measg ant-sluaigh,
    A mhaireas buan gu bràth?
    Chan eil sinn uileadh ach air chuart,
    Mar dhìthein buaile fàs,
    Bheir siantannan na bliadhna sìos,
    'S nach tog a' ghrian an àird.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jörg Friedrich
    When do I stop being a justified warrior? When I've killed a million bad civilians? When I've killed three million bad civilians? According to a warsimulation by the Pentagon in 1953 the entire area of Russia would've been reduced to ruins with 60 million casualties. All bad Russians. 60 million bad guys. By how many million ''bad'' casualties do I stop being a knight of justice? Isn't that the question those knights must ask themselves? If there's no-one left, and I remain as the only just one,

    Then I'm God.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis Napoleon III, Des Idees Napoleoniennes
    Governments have been established to aid society to overcome the obstacles which impede its march. Their forms have been varied according to the problems they have been called to cure, and according to character of the people they have ruled over. Their task never has been, and never will be easy, because the two contrary elements, of which our existence and the nature of society is composed, demand the employment of different means. In view of our divine essence, we need only liberty and work; in view of our mortal nature, we need for our direction a guide and a support. A government is not then, as a distinguished economist has said, a necessary ulcer; it is rather the beneficent motive power of all social organisation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfgang Held
    I walked into those baracks [of Buchenwald concentrationcamp], in which there were people on the three-layered bunkbeds. But only their eyes were alive. Emaciated, skinny figures, nothing more but skin and bones. One thinks that they are dead, because they did not move. Only the eyes. I started to cry. And then one of the prisoners came, stood by me for a while, put a hand on my shoulder and said to me, something that I will never forget: ''Tränen sind denn nicht genug, mein Junge,
    Tränen sind denn nicht genug.''

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