Is it better for soldiers to be religious or atheist?

[austin.weathers]

This is something that I was pondering recently after watching a documentary on the military channel about Waffen SS members from the Balkans late in WWII.

Himmler apparently liked the Islamic soldiers from the Balkans and allowed them to enter the SS despite not being Aryan (and because Germany had a serious manpower shortage by the late stages of the war) because of the tenacity that they fought with and because he understood their religion as giving them better incentive to fight and die for a cause.

Either way, it got me to thinking, is it better for soldiers to be religious (any religion) or atheist?

What are your thoughts...

*I don't need an explaination of Islam in relation to Himmler's views, just stating what got me to thinking about it.

[nasher168]

Well, if a soldier is fighting for a perceived all-important religious cause, it'll probably make them fight harder. Can't see how it makes a difference in modern, secular armies though.

[Helm]

They should ideally believe in the Norse gods because Odin can imbue them with the Berserker Rage which is handy in a tight spot.

[Tacitursa]

Either way, it got me to thinking, is it better for soldiers to be religious (any religion) or atheist?

imo the less emotional attachments a soldier has the better, Combined with logical and rational strong mind you have a very good soldier.

You dont wanna be thinking about your wife and kids , religioin , god , praying etc while your getting shot at you want to be fully focused. Sure soldiers with those things can focus but not as much as soldiers like Rambo lol

[Helm]

imo the less emotional attachments a soldier has the better, Combined with logical and rational strong mind you have a very good soldier.

You dont wanna be thinking about your wife and kids , religioin , god , praying etc while your getting shot at you want to be fully focused. Sure soldiers with those things can focus but not as much as soldiers like Rambo lol

But you wouldn't mind if they worshipped Khorne, that would give them an incentive to shed blood for the blood god in the Warhammer 40K style. Failing that you have fundamentalist Islam.

[Claudius Gothicus]

They should ideally believe in the Norse gods because Odin can imbue them with the Berserker Rage which is handy in a tight spot.

This... all western armies should hold and allow altars for Mars, Tyr, Thor and Woden only. In order to psychologically improve the zeal of soldiers

[Salem1]

Judging by the kind of directed religious indoctrination that armies tended to undergo in the past as part of making them into more desirable automatons than humans, I'd say yes, although only if they can be manipulated with stuff like ''god determines whether you live or die so trying to dodge bullets is useless'' like 300 years ago. Just being religious won't matter. I'm an atheist btw.

[CamilleBonparte]

I don't see what benefit atheism can give anyone, let alone soldiers.

[Helm]

I don't see what benefit atheism can give anyone, let alone soldiers.

They would be less likely to be shot due to an increased fear of death? There was a study that suggests that orthodox Jews are more likely to be hit by a car when crossing the road becaue their belief in an afterlife makes them a little less likely to look both ways, though that that could be complete nonsense.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

When you're a soldier going into war seeing terrible things you probably need some kind of religious faith to be able to coup with it all and not turn insane.

wouldn't that make religion a coping mechanism?

I don't see what benefit atheism can give anyone, let alone soldiers.

in the context of Maximus's post, wouldn't it make you a stronger individual?

Some of us just don't need that kind of comforting. I'm a combat vet and I never once needed god/s to cope.

I presume the first gulf war was your time?

[Ciabhán]

I presume the first gulf war was your time?

Among other things yes.

[justicar5]

I don't see what benefit atheism can give anyone, let alone soldiers.

not worshiping the embodiment of genocide, the patron lord of rape, the master of slavery: YAWEH would be a good start.

[Dr. Croccer]

Considering the body count of the last 100 years, I think Atheists make better cold-blooded automatons.

[Squiggle]

Considering the body count of the last 100 years, I think Atheists make better cold-blooded automatons.

This. So I guess it depends on what you want your army to be. A purely destructive force, you probably want yourself some atheists...

They would be less likely to be shot due to an increased fear of death? There was a study that suggests that orthodox Jews are more likely to be hit by a car when crossing the road becaue their belief in an afterlife makes them a little less likely to look both ways.

Do people not understand how studies work? Theres no way to prove that. You can merely drive a correlation between their religion and what happens to them. Unless you were specifically polling something ridiculous like "Do you give two about traffic, y/n?, if no, is it because you dont care about dieing?"

Needless to say theres too many variables in the equation to actually say with any validity you know why Orthodox jews might be getting hit by cars more. The most a study can do is present you some objective fact, it may work with your hypothesis-- but that doesnt mean your hypothesis is true, the same facts could work with a totally different hypothesis and both still be wrong.

[Prince Odysseus]

There are tons of soldiers on TWC; I'd like to hear their thoughts more than anything else.

[Col. Tartleton]

This. So I guess it depends on what you want your army to be. A purely destructive force, you probably want yourself some atheists... Do people not understand how studies work? Theres no way to prove that. You can merely drive a correlation between their religion and what happens to them. Unless you were specifically polling something ridiculous like "Do you give two about traffic, y/n?, if no, is it because you dont care about dieing?"

Needless to say theres too many variables in the equation to actually say with any validity you know why Orthodox jews might be getting hit by cars more. The most a study can do is present you some objective fact, it may work with your hypothesis-- but that doesnt mean your hypothesis is true, the same facts could work with a totally different hypothesis and both still be wrong.

Its amazing how different your world view becomes after taking a statistics course. I was at propaganda assembly committed on my school by the DEA to discourage me from using heroin or something. While I don't plan on using heroin or meth due to my whole "I don't want to die" mentality, they literally distorted every graph and statement to push their agenda. As someone who goes to school I found it disgusting.

"You're twenty times more likely to use cocaine if you smoke marijuana..."

Actually should be read as "20 times as many cocaine users also use marijuana than those who use cocaine but do not use marijuana."

One is shockingly false. The other makes a lot of sense. One would assume most coke heads have no qualms about using marijuana. The belief that Marijuana encourages coke use is ridiculous. I know tons of pot smokers, I smoke it myself, but only a couple of my friends have tried coke and I only know one who even liked it. Even he isn't going to do it all the time. He's done it a few times over the course of a few years. Hardly a coke head. Just someone who doesn't give a .

No wonder we're one of the worst countries academically for our wealth. We've been lied to about everything since birth.

[Meneth]

Considering the body count of the last 100 years, I think Atheists make better cold-blooded automatons.

I'd want some religious people due to all the religious people who say that without the laws of their religion, they'd go out and do great atrocities.
So I suggest all theists who say they need religion to be moral be drafted, if cold-blooded killers is what you want.

[Manco]

Considering the body count of the last 100 years, I think Atheists make better cold-blooded automatons.

Not that stupid argument.
The Nazi's were mostly Christian with a few mystic pagans and atheists thrown in. And Communist leadership might have been atheist but the masses weren't, and those masses were the ones pulling the trigger. Plus it ignores that we only have had the capabilities for mass killings in the last 100 years; if they had hydrogen bombs in the Crusades they'd have killed a lot more, but since they needed to kill every one manually, they simply weren't able to.

Religion probably only has a minor, if not completely indiscernible effect on a soldier's effectiveness.

[justicar5]

Considering the body count of the last 100 years, I think Atheists make better cold-blooded automatons.

and considering the body count of Christianity I'd consider christians are far better at being blood thirsty psychopaths, espcially given events like the week of blood (the fall of jerusalem to the first crusade), 100-200 thousand people killed, by hand, with swords, in the name of god in his holy city.

Honest answer? If you want a destructive army, get an us and them ideology/religion with utopian ideas: God will return if we take the holy land, world revolution will bring a perfect society, all non-aryans are scum w/e, force feed the soilders that for a decade or so, light the touch paper and watch the trail of destruction.

" Either way, it got me to thinking, is it better for soldiers to be religious (any religion) or atheist? "

austin.weathers

It's amazing how when men are about to embark on war the sales of Bibles increases dramatically here in the West. We live everyday as if death is far away but when it comes to war the distance diminishes by quite a fair bit. I think it was Schwarzkopf who said that there were no atheists in the trenches for which we must give him some credence for making a statement like that.

Most of the atheists on these threads admit quite freely to having been at some point Roman Catholic so I would venture to say that faced by the possibility of death, most if not all, would seek solace in that which they denied for so long even if it was only to shorten the odds as it were. To man death is a bit like Christmas, many don't believe one word about a herefter nor Christmas, but by the same token they don't want to miss out if the opposite is true.

All that said, only the born again will see heaven after death so my advice to any would be seek the Lord Jesus Christ whilst He may be found for there is none other by which you may be saved. In other words, be Justified by Faith, not religion nor atheism.

proof?

[Tacitursa]

a religious soldier is better if you believe he is one of those guys that will go beserk on the enemy for his God. In reality, i don't think it matters since atheists can be just as brutal and fanatic.

Since when were good soldiers brutal and fanatic?

Id take a focoused and disciplined soldier over a gunho madman anyday.