Joint Entries in The VOTM - Discussion & Poll

[MasterBigAb]

@ All who take part in this month's video competition and also to all who follow this and are going to vote:
Me and theatroN are currently making a vid together, just for fun, we wanted to make a really epic video, combining our skills so i come to you all to ask if you mind when we both take part with that vid as it is a co-op work or would you disagree as an "unfair advantage" ?
We didn't plan to make that to win the competition for sure, so if you don't want us to take both part with it i will select an old one as entry, but as it looks like the vid is going to be really nice i thought i ask you all whether you "allow" it or not.

@ Lewis: feel free to add a poll, creat a thread discussing this or pming all competetors for their agreement should be given - pls also add my message to them/the thread what ever

Opinions pls

I have moved all posts relating to this from the VOTM 7 submission thread into this new pinned thread. - Lewis

[LuckyLewis]

Don't worry, I know you guys have both contributed to it equally, I was just giving a scenario in which I wouldn't be happy to give points to someone who had just gone and found some music.

How does everyone feel about the point issue?

[xHerzoGx De Bodemloze]

as i m joining too i just wanted to share my opinion here too and my opinion is: dont make such a big thing out of this although this contets is real professionally organized its still a just for fun competition isnt ?! and its spirit is that the vid makers share their work with the others and geta honest feedback...so from my side u should defnitley join and i wouldnt even mind if u both get 2 points if u win coz ppl should be honoured that u spend that much time to entertain us i guess i m mostly ing here but as i said i think u should be allowed to join and u should both get one point each if u win coz everything else would jsust make it more difficult which is unnecessairy

[MasterBigAb]

as i m joining too i just wanted to share my opinion here too and my opinion is: dont make such a big thing out of this although this contets is real professionally organized its still a just for fun competition isnt ?! and its spirit is that the vid makers share their work with the others and geta honest feedback...so from my side u should defnitley join and i wouldnt even mind if u both get 2 points if u win coz ppl should be honoured that u spend that much time to entertain us i guess i m mostly ing here but as i said i think u should be allowed to join and u should both get one point each if u win coz everything else would jsust make it more difficult which is unnecessairy

Thanks
I think it's a question of honor and fairness to ask the others

Don't worry, I know you guys have both contributed to it equally, I was just giving a scenario in which I wouldn't be happy to give points to someone who had just gone and found some music.

Yeah i know of course, but i wanted to point that out for our case, so people have some information etc... and so on

[LuckyLewis]

If everyone is okay with it, I'd rather just give them one point each half points will complicate it. Assuming they win of course.

[.Mitch.]

Im all for joint projects, I think they could produce something unique and interesting.

However, I may be saying something different if 3 or 4 were entering a single submission.

This point is kinda stupid. Why are 4 people working different to 2 ? Because they do less work? What if each of the 4 spends 10 hours on their job...

As for the point issue. Each is doing half the work. Filming/Editting. So I guess the 'reward' should logicaly be split. I don't see why a reward should double because more people take part.

I know the point raised is that both might spend the same amount of time on their part that they might have spent on a whole vid. But what if someone else spends the same amount of time as both of the partners combined. They should get 2 points also?

Again, I think its a great idea to work in partnerships. But I think rules have to be created to keep it fair on everyone else participating. At least in my humble opinion.

[Edax]

Maybe the start of a second video of the month contest, but with only co-op videos?

[MasterBigAb]

Maybe the start of a second video of the month contest, but with only co-op videos?

I think that might end up like the uevm, with rare to none entries at all...

This point is kinda stupid. Why are 4 people working different to 2 ? Because they do less work? What if each of the 4 spends 10 hours on their job...

I don't think that point is stupid at all, 4 people makign one vid together is kind of overdone - how should they share work anyways ? two making records, one cutting and the fourth editing ? if you split the work of a video into 4 !fair! parts, so you can say everyone has contributed enough, i think noone will have to do nor spend much time on it, that would just be to get in other members as well just to give them a "win" or something liek that...

And here:

As for the point issue. Each is doing half the work. Filming/Editting. So I guess the 'reward' should logicaly be split. I don't see why a reward should double because more people take part.

you've got a "stupid" point i think (not meant offensive mate of course) - so as - like you said, makign a vid with four people totally accaptable, we should split up the win into 1/4 each ?!? - doesn't make much sense, wouldn't work at all anyways....
Regarding that:

I know the point raised is that both might spend the same amount of time on their part that they might have spent on a whole vid. But what if someone else spends the same amount of time as both of the partners combined. They should get 2 points also?

This is pretty pointless:
I have spend two weeks on the Pelennor Fields video - and i got one point.
But i only spent like two days on the Fall of Gondor, and also got one point, while others might have spend days or weeks more, but would have also got one point.

What I am saying is that this does more or less only work one way round, to say if someone spent more time on something he gets 2 wins isn't possible/acceptable - i could simply say yeah it took me 12 months to make it...
On the other hand, if you split up the work into many pieves, so everone has only done a little bit, there should not a win/person be awarded as that would be unfair - that's what lewis pointed out, if both did put in as much time and effort as someone else also has to and didn't get an advantage cause he had less to do a win/ person might be acceptable - and that's why i pointed out that our combined vid does not bring us any advantage or difference regarding the effort/time - but "just" the eye candy.

[LuckyLewis]

This point is kinda stupid. Why are 4 people working different to 2 ? Because they do less work? What if each of the 4 spends 10 hours on their job...

Nice usual choice of words from you Mitch.

I was referring to MasterbigAb and TheatroN's video. I wouldn't be happy with 4 people working on a 3-4 minute video and therefore all 4 receiving a full VOTM point. The competition needs to keep some simplicity, if we are using full points for a group of 4, I'm sure many, including yourself would complain about it being unfair. On the other hand, lets say we split the VOTM point up, and each of the 4 get 1/4 of a point. Is this really necessary complexity? How often are these four-way entries going to occur? What is next? 10 people making one video? The line has to be drawn somewhere. I don't want to be managing a leaderboard of people who all have 1% of a point.

Besides, MasterbigAB and TheatroN have it right, they both have substantial roles. When the numbers get higher, the roles get smaller. Joint entries made by 2 people are far more likely to occur and assuming we go down the half a point route, it is simple enough to manage and record.

Personally, I think joint entries should be limited to partnerships of two people, each would have significant roles (e.g. one films and puts the clips together, the other does the extensive editing). When you add more, it is suddenly more complicated.

Maybe the start of a second video of the month contest, but with only co-op videos?

Although a nice idea, I don't think there is enough of an audience to go ahead with this.

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[naxzul666]

In principle, this concept is interesting and I approve this idea.
But it would be more sensible and fair compared to other contestants, to separate the winners.

One can imagine that if MasterBigAb / theatroN won the contest, it is gratifying to win an honorary award no points.
And the second in the poll, he wins a point.

Finally, I do not know what to think ...
I put in place other occasional participants who could not post anymore knowing that they would have no chance of winning against teams ...

That's my opinion and I will respect the choice to be made.

[MasterBigAb]

they would have no chance of winning against teams ...

That's the point i think, not if it is fair regarding the effort/ time etc... - as we don't have to do less than enyone else - but if the other participants say "it's unfair as everyone else has no chance" ?!

[John Doe]

What about the advantage of group work over individual? not just about the shared workload, there is also 2 creative minds brainstorming, challenging and correcting each other. There is some synergy involved that could be seen as unfair advantage.

[LuckyLewis]

What about the advantage of group work over individual? not just about the shared workload, there is also 2 creative minds brainstorming, challenging and correcting each other. There is some synergy involved that could be seen as unfair advantage.

I will make a poll tomorrow to decide whether or not to allow the joint entries. If it fails, I'm afraid we won't allow them in the VOTM. If it passes, I will make another poll to decide on whether full VOTM points or half a point should be given. I will then edit the rules and the chaps asking for it can submit their video.

Let us allow the people to decide.

[Edax]

What about the advantage of group work over individual? not just about the shared workload, there is also 2 creative minds brainstorming, challenging and correcting each other. There is some synergy involved that could be seen as unfair advantage.

I agree, if people who work together make videos that are better then everyone elses (a distinct possiblity) everyone else who makes videos have two options, go it alone and never win, or be forced to find someone else to work with to stay competitive. You guys may be sharing the workload now, but what if next time you both go all out, in a two-parter-in-one series that are just as good as two really good videos that can't be beat? I'm just worried that his may lead to what Nanny was planning, with his full fledged movie that was suppose to come out in the Fall but never did. Can't compete with war epics, though they are awesome are to watch.

It may start off good and well, but I fear on where it may lead, call me a cynic. But I also say hold off on the poll until we can accually see the video in question. It it looks just like another vid, then it should be alright for now.

[MasterBigAb]

that might happen although i don't think it will.
We also ddn't plan to make hat to win and i am pretty sure we won't do it again for next months competition, may be some time later... as it is also time consumign to "manage" that and to talk about all that and sending stuff to each other etc.... and I am also quite sure that not many others will make joint entries... but if they do, to try it out, i think they should be allowed to take part.

I think with this first case we also have some kind of "extreme" - i do not mean to sound arrogant but judging from the wins etc... this time two of the - how to call it - most succsesfull video makers do make a vid together... ii hope you don't get me wrong and know what i mean...

[xHerzoGx De Bodemloze]

I think with this first case we also have some kind of "extreme" - i do not mean to sound arrogant but judging from the wins etc... this time two of the - how to call it - most succsesfull video makers do make a vid together... ii hope you don't get me wrong and know what i mean...

i totally agree to bigab...we should be gratefull that the 2 most sucessfull vid makers decided to make a masterpiece together...and as i said in my first comment we shouldnt forget about the real spirit of this contest which is (at least in my opinion) the sharing of our work and the honouring of the best vid makers around...not earning points ?! + i think neither bigab nor theatron are depending on those points ?! big ab allready got the medall and i m sure its a question of time until theatron owns it too...but not honouring their work or spliting the points is kinda like a shame to me coz we all know that IF they win they would both deserve to get a whole point...just sayin

[Edax]

Well, I do agree that splitting points is bull****. This contest takes a whole month and if we're only giving fractions away, we'll be seeing the first gold medal sometime in year 2100.

[Finlander]

Let's give them (if they will win) only a 1 point.
Why to make this so complicated? I am a simple man. Let them fight with each other and the strongest may get the well earned point.
or...let's make a lottery. The luckiest may win.

[Finlander]

I'm willing to give them 2 points. It's a wonderful thing that they combine their strenght and skills.
Maybe we will see something like in this video

[theatroN]

I'm willing to give them 2 points. It's a wonderful thing that they combine their strenght and skills.
Maybe we will see something like in this video

That would be awesome, though I think I dont have enough time to do sky replacement for that many shots.. A long proces. Do you know who created this though? I saw it once before and it's just insane! :O Anyone from the forum?