High Era unit list

**Adherbal** · December 30, 2005, 06:09 AM

This is the current high era unit list, suggestions are more then welcome

italic units are already in progress

HIGH

Teutonic Order
-Crusader infantry
-Teutonic sergeants
-Teutonic Foot Knights
-Crossbowmen
-Pavise Crossbowmen
-Teutonic mounted sergeants
-Teutonic Knights
-Chivalric Knights
-Grandmaster's Bodyguard

Kingdom of Jerusalem
-Crusader Infantry
-Chivalric Sergeants
-Templar Sergeants
-Crossbowmen
-Pavise Crossbowmen
-Knights Templar
-Knight Hospitallers
-Chivalric Knights
-Chivalric Mounted Sergeants

Castile
-Chivalric Men at Arms
-Chivalric Sergeants
-City Guards
-Crossbowmen
-Pavise Crossbowmen
-Chivalric Mounted Sergeants
-Chivalric Knights
-Knights of Santiago

Aragon
-Chivalric Men at Arms
-Chivalric Sergeants
-City Guards
-Crossbowmen
-Pavise Crossbowmen
-Chivalric Mounted Sergeants
-Chivalric Knights
-Almogavars

France
-Chivalric Men at Arms
-Chivalric Sergeants
-City Guards
-Crossbowmen
-Pavise Crossbowmen
-Chivalric Mounted Sergeants
-Chivalric Knights

England
-Chivalric Men at Arms
-Chivalric Sergeants
-City Guards
-Crossbowmen
-Pavise Crossbowmen
-Chivalric Mounted Sergeants
-Chivalric Knights
-Longbowmen

HRE
-Chivalric Men at Arms
-Chivalric Sergeants
-City Guards
-Crossbowmen
-Pavise Crossbowmen
-Chivalric Mounted Sergeants
-Chivalric Knights

Denmark
-Chivalric Men at Arms
-Chivalric Sergeants
-City Guards
-Crossbowmen
-Pavise Crossbowmen
-Chivalric Mounted Sergeants
-Chivalric Knights

Byzantium

Almohads

Turks

Egypt
-Mamluk Horse Archers
-Mamluk Heavy Cavalry
-Mamluk Bodyguard

Horde
-Mongol Horse Archers
-Mongol Warriors
-Mongol Heavy Cavalry
-Mongol Bodyguard

Kiev

Novgorod

Sicily
-Chivalric Men at Arms
-Chivalric Sergeants
-City Guards
-Crossbowmen
-Pavise Crossbowmen
-Chivalric Mounted Sergeants
-Chivalric Knights

Papal States
-Chivalric Men at Arms
-Chivalric Sergeants
-City Guards
-Crossbowmen
-Pavise Crossbowmen
-Chivalric Mounted Sergeants
-Chivalric Knights

Hungary
-Chivalric Men at Arms
-Chivalric Sergeants
-City Guards
-Crossbowmen
-Pavise Crossbowmen
-Chivalric Mounted Sergeants
-Chivalric Knights
-Cuman Heavy Cavalry
-Cuman Horse Archers
-Cuman Raider Cavalry

Poland
-Chivalric Men at Arms
-Chivalric Sergeants
-City Guards
-Crossbowmen
-Pavise Crossbowmen
-Chivalric Mounted Sergeants
-Chivalric Knights

Armenia
-Armenian Swordsmen
-Didebuls (H)
-Naxarar (H)
-Knight Hospitallers

**dragases1453** · December 30, 2005, 06:32 AM

Very nice list!

**Gottskalk** · December 31, 2005, 11:12 AM

Yes i like the list very well! Humm yes as i am a fan of the teutonic order i might add a few suggestions =)

1 perhaps we should make units of light/medium cavalry wich would represent the squires witch fought with their master (seem to recall there were often 10 squires per knight)

2 Humm maby there could be made a unit of local prussian troops to act as a numerous light infrantry or such , possibly only recruitable in prussian provinces or provinces wich were pagan at this time. Although this would take some time just to add some goodies for one team (or possibly every team witch gain control of provinces) it would perhaps reflect a little on the local troops the teutonic knights sometimes used .

3 Yes chivilavric knights is a very nice addition! (not a suggestion a compliment=) )

Well these are only suggestions witch would favour my favourite team over the other so i cant really justify it but i would love to see if you have the time and will =)

p.s. please kill me if my suggestions dont match historical facts

**Last Roman** · December 31, 2005, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by Gottskalk

1 perhaps we should make units of light/medium cavalry wich would represent the squires witch fought with their master (seem to recall there were often 10 squires per knight)

but the squires often fought on foot (or at least thats what i've read) and only after the battle went back to their masters

**Adherbal** · December 31, 2005, 11:19 AM

1 perhaps we should make units of light/medium cavalry wich would represent the squires witch fought with their master (seem to recall there were often 10 squires per knight)

those would be the "Teutonic Mounted Sergeants", no ?

**Gottskalk** · December 31, 2005, 11:27 AM

well they fit a role as the medium cavalry but they werent really the squires im talking about . The sergeant were people of lower social rank than the true knights but youre probably right on that the teutonic knights really dont deserve more cavalry =)

**Gottskalk** · December 31, 2005, 11:34 AM

well they fit a role as the medium cavalry but they werent really the squires im talking about . The sergeant were people of lower social rank than the true knights but youre probably right on that the teutonic knights really dont deserve more cavalry =)

yes btw see that you havent started on the grandmaster and his company, i would gladly help if theres any need for someone with a book.

**Iskandr** · December 31, 2005, 01:37 PM

Just an observation- I think that, although it would stray from the MTW origins of the mod, it might be a good idea to make the unit rosters a little more region-dependent for most of the factions. After all, the basis of fuedalism was using locally raised troops. So, for example, maybe Longbowmen shouldn't be an English unit (actually, WELSH longbowmen shouldn't- the English should get a slightly weaker Yeomen unit they can raise anywhere with the right buildings). Or perhaps, make them into mercenaries, like the Cretans in RTR (can't remember if they're in Vanilla). I think the mercenary idea is more historical, also for units like the Genoan Crossbowmen the French seemed to love hiring (and then getting killed), Bonnachts and Gallowglaiches and Landsknechts. Even Swiss Pikemen, realistically, should only be mercenaries unless actually playing the Swiss Confederation.

Ok, on to specific factions:

Tuetonic Order-
chivalric knights- they already have Tuetonic Knights, they probably shouldn't have these as well, though arguably, it doesn't matter.

Kingdom of Jerusalem
chivalric knights/sergeants- they have Templars, shouldn't have both. They should also have some pretty severe population problems to force them to rely on immigrants. If there was a way to do it, I would make it impossible for them to hire "native" mercenaries too- force them to hire from Europe/script reinforcements of some sort

France- Most French Crossbowmen from the period were in fact mercenaries, so maybe recruited crossbowmen should be weaker/more expensive to reflect this trend?

England- I have never seen a reference to English crossbowmen except in sieges or very limited use as mercenaries. They should get Yeomen Longbows instead, and Welsh Longbows from Wales (if you decide not to go the merc route for them).

In general, the unit lists for all of Western/Northern Europe are the same or identical- as I said before, having more regionally recruited units might be the thing to allow some variation.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. BTW, what are the years for the High era? I might spend some more time digging.

Iskandr

**John I Tzimisces** · December 31, 2005, 01:52 PM

Cilicia? I was under the impression Armenian Cilicia was going to be in this era of the mod, as well as in the late period?

**militiaman** · December 31, 2005, 06:59 PM

I'm pretty sure he just forgot that.

**{nF}remix** · December 31, 2005, 09:00 PM

English did not use crossbow men. The English Phenomenon at the time was the Longbow and they despised the crossbow, especially genoese crossbows.

**Adherbal** · January 01, 2006, 03:31 AM

if there is not a single battle were the english used native crossbowmen they'll lose the units.

**{nF}remix** · January 01, 2006, 04:27 AM

Originally Posted by Adherbal

if there is not a single battle were the english used native crossbowmen they'll lose the units.

well im sure some English used crossbow men, its impossible to say that no english soldier has ever used a crossbow in history, but they very mcuh favored the longbow, and the crossbow was utilized very litte.

The reason all other european nations adopted the xbow is because they needed an easy to master ranged weapon. Archery took skill to master, something the english caught on to.

To get a real insight to the longbow and crossbow phenomenoms (sp?) i suggest Bernard Cornwall's "The Grail QUest Trilogy". Really good read imo, one of the best historical fiction reads ever made.

**Adherbal** · January 01, 2006, 03:36 AM

Kingdom of Jerusalem
chivalric knights/sergeants- they have Templars, shouldn't have both. They should also have some pretty severe population problems to force them to rely on immigrants. If there was a way to do it, I would make it impossible for them to hire "native" mercenaries too- force them to hire from Europe/script reinforcements of some sort

their chiv knights represent the common (not part of an order) knights. We can't just remove those.
Mercenaries are purchased though the advisor menu (script) so we can control what faction gets access to what mercs.

**Iskandr** · January 01, 2006, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by Adherbal

their chiv knights represent the common (not part of an order) knights. We can't just remove those.

While, honestly, the chiv knights and order knights probably be close to each other statwise that it's not important except visually, the historical situation was that the KoJ had virtually no ability to raise local units- knights or otherwise. While there certainly was local fiefs and such, the KoJ really relied almost entirely on reinforcements from Europe- allowing them to raise local chivalric knights skips this, in reality, unsurmountable disadvantage. Actually being able to raise any units except some irregulars via the standard recruiting system is kind of problematic. Since apparently there are faction-specific mercenary units, I think that might be the easiest way to portray the arrival of new waves of Crusaders from Europe. Either that, or maybe scripting free arrivals- though I have no idea how to actually do that. By the way, would Turcopoles be High or late (or early and I missed them)?

Iskandr

**Adherbal** · January 01, 2006, 06:35 AM

well im sure some English used crossbow men, its impossible to say that no english soldier has ever used a crossbow in history, but they very mcuh favored the longbow, and the crossbow was utilized very litte.

I mean if there are battle reports specifically mensioning crossbowmen units.

**Adherbal** · January 01, 2006, 02:56 PM

I think that might be the easiest way to portray the arrival of new waves of Crusaders from Europe. Either that, or maybe scripting free arrivals- though I have no idea how to actually do that. By the way, would Turcopoles be High or late (or early and I missed them)?

the Crusader States are only playable in the "Crusades" minor campaign, and that is exactly how they work (reinforcements from europe arriving in byzantium). They will also be present in the grand campaign, but will be able to train units there like any other faction (the AI is already weak enough without limiting their supply of units

)

Turcopoles are available in the Early Era

**Maethius** · January 02, 2006, 12:14 PM

Like the unit list!

**GeneralLee** · January 02, 2006, 03:12 PM

Why no Byz units? Is the list the same as early era or have they not even been started? This mod is looking better and better, hope you find a scripter.