Chief Druid Zabethica convenes synod to keep England's Ritual Circle alive

[Stavroforos]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11817744

Queen gives warning to Church of England synod

The Queen told the synod's members that the Church of England faced "many issues"
Continue reading the main story
Related stories

The 'feminisation' of the Church
Will women bishops split the Church?
Church synod allows women bishops
The Queen has spoken of the "difficult" and "painful" choices facing the Church of England as she formally opened the Church's general synod.

She also spoke of the "need to communicate the gospel with joy and conviction in our society".

The Queen addressed the 476 members of the Church's governing body as they marked the start of a five-year term.

The synod will also debate measures to keep the Church together over issues such as same-sex blessings.

And its members are preparing to discuss Prime Minister David Cameron's "big society" idea.

Before her address, the Queen, who is supreme governor of the Church of England, attended a service of Holy Communion at Westminster Abbey, accompanied by the Duke of Edinburgh.

Speaking at the synod meeting, she said: "The new synod will have many issues to resolve to ensure that the Church of England remains equipped for the effective pursuit of its mission and ministry.

"Some will, no doubt, involve difficult, even painful, choices.

"But Christian history suggests that times of growth and spiritual vigour have often coincided with periods of challenge and testing.

Continue reading the main story
What is the General Synod?

The general synod is the legislative body of the Church of England, whose supreme governor is the Queen
It came into being in 1970, replacing the previous Church Assembly, and is elected every five years. It meets at least twice annually
The synod comprises the 52-strong House of Bishops, the 205-member House of Clergy, and the House of Laity, which has 207 members
It exists to pass measures on topics such as use of churches and care of cathedrals which - if approved by Parliament - become law in England, and to approve the Church finances
It also regulates relations with other churches, amends canons guiding the clergy on the Church's teachings and develops liturgical texts on how to conduct worship
"What matters is holding firmly to the need to communicate the gospel with joy and conviction in our society."

The Queen also said a "preoccupation with our welfare and comfort" were not "at the heart of our faith" but rather "the concepts of service and of sacrifice as shown in the life and teachings of the one who made himself nothing, taking the very form of a servant".

During her address, the Queen said the place of religion had come to be a matter of "lively discussion" in a more "diverse and secular" society.

"It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue and that the well-being and prosperity of the nation depend on the contribution of individuals and groups of all faiths and none," she said.

"Yet, as the recent visit of His Holiness the Pope reminded us, churches and the other great faith traditions retain the potential to inspire great enthusiasm, loyalty and a concern for the common good."

There was applause at the synod meeting when the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, expressed "delight" at the forthcoming marriage of Prince William and Kate Middleton.

'Casualty stations'
Addressing the Queen, he said: "I am sure I speak for everyone here in expressing our delight at the family news announced last week."

Also speaking at the synod meeting, Dr Williams said he wanted to avoid the worst aspects of "secular partisanship" by the Archbishop of Canterbury.

Continue reading the main story
“
Start Quote

We are already seeing that other big agenda item - the government's biggest, that of reducing the budget deficit - having an impact on the capacity to support the voluntary sector”

Reverend Mark Beach
He urged members not to reject the Anglican Covenant, a proposed agreement aimed at resolving disputes within the worldwide Anglican Communion.

The idea was first put forward in the Windsor Report in 2004 in response to tensions within the Anglican Communion following the consecration in the US of Gene Robinson, who is openly gay, as a bishop in New Hampshire.

And it is an "illusion" to believe the Anglican Communion can "carry on as usual" in the face of splits over issues such as the consecration of openly gay bishops and same sex blessings, Dr Williams warned.

"If we ignore this, we ignore what is already a real danger, the piece-by-piece dissolution of the Communion and the emergence of new structures in which relation to the Church of England and the See of Canterbury are likely not to figure significantly," he said.

BBC religious affairs correspondent Robert Pigott says one of the most important laws likely to emerge during the synod's coming five-year period is the introduction of women bishops.

The issue has been deeply divisive between liberal and traditionalist parts of the Church.


The Archbishop of Canterbury has voiced concerns about proposed government welfare cuts
And Dr Williams said the prime minister's vision of a "big society" had provided an "extraordinary" opportunity to debate questions about "character, virtue, generosity and justice".

Dr Williams has previously said he is "very anxious" about planned government welfare cuts, saying housing benefit reforms could result in "social zoning", and that plans for the long-term unemployed to do unpaid work risked a "downward spiral of uncertainty, even despair".

The Reverend Mark Beach, from Rugby, told the synod that funds to the voluntary sector should not be cut if a "big society" was to become a reality.

"If a big society is about enabling local people to fulfil their aspirations then I am all for it, if what is achieved is a real shift of power from Whitehall which reduces red tape and allows people to get on with it, then all well and good," he said.

"But we are already seeing that other big agenda item - the government's biggest, that of reducing the budget deficit - having an impact on the capacity to support the voluntary sector."

The Bishop of Blackburn, the Right Reverend Nicholas Reade, warned that churches should not "simply be seen" as "casualty stations" for those "wounded" by spending cuts.

So, do you guys think that the issue of homosexual marriages should cause this great cult to split?

[Squiggle]

It's pathetic that as a man of faith and a Christian, you go out of your way to spew petty and embarrassing insults and remarks about Anglicans being a "cult". And I aint a fan of Anglicanism, either.

[Phier]

It's pathetic that as a man of faith and a Christian, you go out of your way to spew petty and embarrassing insults and remarks about Anglicans being a "cult". And I aint a fan of Anglicanism, either.

Actually it was pretty funny based on what passes for a mudpit headline about the Pope

And it is a cult, all religions are cults, some are just bigger than others.

cult


–noun1.a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.

[Stavroforos]

It's pathetic that as a man of faith and a Christian, you go out of your way to spew petty and embarrassing insults and remarks about Anglicans being a "cult". And I aint a fan of Anglicanism, either.

As far as I'm concerned, there's little to respect about a religion which exists because of a guy who wanted to get a divorce.

[Squiggle]

As far as I'm concerned, there's little to respect about a religion which exists because of a guy who wanted to get a divorce.

It's not a religion...your religion is not orthodox. You are Christian- your sect, your denomination of Christianity, is Orthodox. There Christians, many Anglicans only differ moderately in theology from Catholicism, and many differ only moderately from mainstream protestants. Either way, they are Christians first and foremost, well before whatever the historical circumstances behind the formation of their church. I could spend my day bashing the idiocy of the Orthodox Church structure, or that the orthodox church only exists because of a disagreement over a single clause, but I dont do it, because I'm respectful to other Christians, not only as virtue of the fact that there people in general, but they are other Christians.

[Stavroforos]

It's not a religion...your religion is not orthodox. You are Christian- your sect, your denomination of Christianity, is Orthodox. There Christians, many Anglicans only differ moderately in theology from Catholicism, and many differ only moderately from mainstream protestants. Either way, they are Christians first and foremost, well before whatever the historical circumstances behind the formation of their church. I could spend my day bashing the idiocy of the Orthodox Church structure, or that the orthodox church only exists because of a disagreement over a single clause, but I dont do it, because I'm respectful to other Christians, not only as virtue of the fact that there people in general, but they are other Christians.

Feel free to do so, other Christians on this forum relish in the act. In any case, for the sake of this thread, you can pretend I'm an atheist and that bashing the English religion is fine.

[Elfdude]

As far as I'm concerned, there's little to respect about a religion which exists because of a guy who wanted to get a divorce.

This is a genetic fallacy as much as I hate to agree with squiggle.

[Stavroforos]

This is a genetic fallacy as much as I hate to agree with squiggle.

Well, no reason was good enough to break away from the Apostolic Church in Rome.

[Elfdude]

Well, no reason was good enough to break away from the Apostolic Church in Rome.

Do you like bringing up irrelevant issues?

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

Well Anglicanism was basically motivated by the heterodox beliefs and selfish interests of a horny king, so good riddance anyway. Traditional Protestant denominations all around the world are dying of senility and they are no exception.

[Col. Tartleton]

The world would be better off with traditional beliefs and science.

Praise Esus.

[The Million Dollar Prons]

So, do you guys think that the issue of homosexual marriages should cause this great cult to split?

I am starting to suspect the original poster has a particular opinion on the news story they have posted.

But as for the actual subject, Anglicanism will probably be split up into two sections. The people that don't want gay men and women as bishops and don't want a church that'll bend over backwards to be more PC; I call these people future Catholics; and the people who just want everyone to have a good time without anyone actually learning anything or having any fun; I call those people white women on thanksgiving.

What's really funny to me is that the Queen obviously doesn't think Anglicanism is very important. "Well ya know it's important because it makes people really enthusiastic and stuff."

[Stavroforos]

Well nobody is actually really addressing the issue of the thread.

[Elfdude]

Well nobody is actually really addressing the issue of the thread.

It's hard to discuss things when the person who opens the discussion is peddling a fallacious worldview under the guise of debate. You essentially derailed your own thread with that.

As for the angelican church splitting over the issue, I suppose it's possible. The Evangelical Lutheran Church in the US is undergoing similar restructurings as different churches exhibit issue with the institution's gay tolerance. Regardless the split will be short lived and when the issue becomes moot as gays gain more and more rights it will be shoved under the table just like the southern baptists shoved the fact that they used the bible to justify slavery under the table.

Really though you'd be hard pressed to convince us that the purpose of this thread was anything other than a chance for you expound upon your bias against the angelican church.

[Stavroforos]

It's hard to discuss things when the person who opens the discussion is peddling a fallacious worldview under the guise of debate. You essentially derailed your own thread with that.

As for the angelican church splitting over the issue, I suppose it's possible. The Evangelical Lutheran Church in the US is undergoing similar restructurings as different churches exhibit issue with the institution's gay tolerance. Regardless the split will be short lived and when the issue becomes moot as gays gain more and more rights it will be shoved under the table just like the southern baptists shoved the fact that they used the bible to justify slavery under the table.

Really though you'd be hard pressed to convince us that the purpose of this thread was anything other than a chance for you expound upon your bias against the angelican church.

Actually the title was simply in response to the title of a thread about the Pope's stance on condoms, and not meant entirely seriously.

The question I have is should the Anglican church accommodate its theology to answer what is a modern moral dilemma? I mean, I'm all for full homosexual rights in civic life, but in religious life they should abide by whatever their religion says, whether it is good or bad.

[Jom]

Actually the title was simply in response to the title of a thread about the Pope's stance on condoms, and not meant entirely seriously.

The question I have is should the Anglican church accommodate its theology to answer what is a modern moral dilemma? I mean, I'm all for full homosexual rights in civic life, but in religious life they should abide by whatever their religion says, whether it is good or bad.

The Anglican communion has always been much more flexible and pragmatic than its Roman Catholic counterpart. I'm not sure if those Anglicans in America will welcome the recognition of homosexual marriage within the church if that was the chosen direction; there has already been a potential split over homosexual bishops.

[Stavroforos]

The Anglican communion has always been much more flexible and pragmatic than its Roman Catholic counterpart. I'm not sure if those Anglicans in America will welcome the recognition of homosexual marriage within the church if that was the chosen direction; there has already been a potential split over homosexual bishops.

That flexibility is almost certainly why there is no reason to take the Anglican cult seriously, if they can just invent theology as they go along.

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

Well, burning witches has been a Protestant thingy. No question of it. And the "flexible theology" too, has been an exclusively Protestant thing. So no wonder that people in the West no longer take Christianity seriously.

[Vizsla]

I doubt the OP is particularly interested but for what it is worth:

Anglicanism is having problems.

One is a Protestant specific problem in that it is tolerant and has always defined religion as being a matter of personal conscience and individualism. When taken to its logical conclusion this leads to atheism, although not everyone goes that far. So congregations are shrinking. This contrasts with the Catholic way of looking at things since the counter reformation, which seeks to subsume the individual into the will of the church.

The second problem is Anglican specific. From the beginning it was split into two, the High Church and the Low Church. Elements of the High Church are closer to Catholicism in outlook. The Low Church is more Lutheran. This split has never been resolved and some Highs are splitting off to join the Catholic church.
The Jesuits, the Propaganda and the Inquisition would be proud.

[basics]

" Well, burning witches has been a Protestant thingy. No question of it. And the "flexible theology" too, has been an exclusively Protestant thing. So no wonder that people in the West no longer take Christianity seriously. "

Louis XI,

Well my lad, I think it is back to the Bible for you. In old Testament days God called them devil worshippers or apostates even aliens. In the time of Rome's supremacy they were called heretics but in reality it applies to anyone that is not born again, even those that went out of their way to worship quite openly Satan.

So let's look at what the second commandment says, even what Paul says in the early chapters of his letter to the Romans. This is what qualifies as devil worship dressed in any name you want to give it. " Thou shalt have no graven images..." that is hand crafted images of anything that represents God or as Paul puts it they replaced God with graven images of all sorts.

Does this apply to Protestants? In the form of stained glass windows, yes it does and it is wrong. But look to yourself, assuming you're either Roman Catholic or Orthodox, and see the whole edifice of these systems adorned with images and hand crafted figures supposedly to be Jesus Christ our God. Yes, look to things that are not even divine yet find a place for adhoration.

Are these not the alien images forbidden by the second commandment? Are the people who pray, kiss and adhore them not apostates and heretics? For as Paul says any other gospel is no Gospel at all and brings on a curse. Are these things not part of another gospel? Are the people who preach such things not as deluded as them that follow their example?

I put it to you and your fellow travellers that on such a day God will say that He never knew you and your replies will be that you did these things using His name. Oh, you think you know Him but more importantly He doesn't know you, why? Simply because you ignore the Laws that He gave to Moses for us.

Jesus Christ never died so that you can flaunt His Law. He died so that each regenerate can fulfill it in every sense. Now this I put to you, if on every side there are images made by hand, even crafted by machine at the hand of man, in your mass houses, then who exactly is it that you do worship?