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Thread: [Update 2019/08/11 V 5.6!] The Historical Units Region Buildings Mod! (6 New Factions/ Units/ Map / Buildings)

  1. #81
    RollingWave's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: [beta version 1!] The Historical Roster Revision Mod!

    Quote Originally Posted by omen1710 View Post
    They are a part of akinjis troop. They became noticable troop in 16th century but before 16th century, they also existed. Therefore; don't include them, they are not important troop before 16th century.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Spahis of porte -> qapiqulu( kapikulu) spahis.
    Turkish Gazhawats -> Turkish ghazis or Turkish ghazi infantry.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The other troops of seljuks seem good for me.
    well I could make two aknjis unit anyway, since akinjis were obviously a large (numerical) part of the ottoman army and just one unit seems like an under representation.

    As for the other terms, in my understanding Sipahis of the Porte and Kapikulu Sipahis are basically one of the same? I put in the Kapikulu in the description anyway, so one way or the other is fine with me.

    Also, at least from what I looked up, Ghazawat is the plural for Ghazi ?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghazis
    Ghazi or ghazah (plural ghazawāt; Arabic: غزو‎)
    1180, an unprecedented period of peace and prosperity in East Asia, it's technology and wealth is the envy of the world. But soon conflict will engulf the entire region with great consequences and lasting effects for centuries to come, not just for this region, but the entire known world, when one man, one people, unites.....

  2. #82

    Default Re: [beta version 1!] The Historical Roster Revision Mod!

    I'm looking forward to the next update. How long do you think it will take before you can make this more compatible with other mods?

    And I don't like the Crusader States roster so much now, I don't know what it is but something about them just doesn't feel right now. I'll have a think about it today.

  3. #83
    RollingWave's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: [beta version 1!] The Historical Roster Revision Mod!

    hmmm I've been thinking about switching the Crusaders to French knights instead of basic knights

    as from time frame on competitbility, I'm not sure, could be easier than I thought or could take a long time depending on how much I need to redo the EDB most
    1180, an unprecedented period of peace and prosperity in East Asia, it's technology and wealth is the envy of the world. But soon conflict will engulf the entire region with great consequences and lasting effects for centuries to come, not just for this region, but the entire known world, when one man, one people, unites.....

  4. #84
    omen1710's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: [beta version 1!] The Historical Roster Revision Mod!

    Quote Originally Posted by RollingWave View Post
    well I could make two aknjis unit anyway, since akinjis were obviously a large (numerical) part of the ottoman army and just one unit seems like an under representation.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I suppose to divide Turkish ghazis into two part. One unit is Turkish ghazi horseman and the other is Turkish ghazi infantry and put them into high era. (First Ottoman sultans are ghazis who fight on horseback). Akinjis aren't large as you thought because of this, there is no need another akinji unit.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by RollingWave View Post
    As for the other terms, in my understanding Sipahis of the Porte and Kapikulu Sipahis are basically one of the same? I put in the Kapikulu in the description anyway, so one way or the other is fine with me.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Yes, they are same. I don't know who say sipahis of porte. But Turks say Kapikulu or Kapikulu sipahis.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by RollingWave View Post
    Also, at least from what I looked up, Ghazawat is the plural for Ghazi ?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghazis
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    In Arabic, Ghazawat is plural of ghazi. However, we talk about turkish ghazi. The plural suffix in Turkish language is -ler and -lar. Therefore; singular "gazi" became plural "gaziler" in Turkish language. In addition to this, most people (we can include turkish people into this situation) doesn't recognize that ghazawad is plural of ghazi. This may current for gaziler
    I suppose to use ghazis because this is global name of this unit and many people can easily recognize this historical unit.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I suppose to remove hashashims. The unit isn't historical unit. Hashashims aren't soldier. They are assassins. Their leader is Hassan Sabbah and their headquarter is Alamut castle in Persia.
    Battlefield assassins also share the same place with hashashims. They should be removed.
    Last edited by omen1710; November 30, 2010 at 10:12 AM.




  5. #85
    RollingWave's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: [beta version 1!] The Historical Roster Revision Mod!

    Quote Originally Posted by omen1710 View Post
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I suppose to divide Turkish ghazis into two part. One unit is Turkish ghazi horseman and the other is Turkish ghazi infantry and put them into high era. (First Ottoman sultans are ghazis who fight on horseback). Akinjis aren't large as you thought because of this, there is no need another akinji unit.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Yes, they are same. I don't know who say sipahis of porte. But Turks say Kapikulu or Kapikulu sipahis.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    In Arabic, Ghazawat is plural of ghazi. However, we talk about turkish ghazi. The plural suffix in Turkish language is -ler and -lar. Therefore; singular "gazi" became plural "gaziler" in Turkish language. In addition to this, most people (we can include turkish people into this situation) doesn't recognize that ghazawad is plural of ghazi. This may current for gaziler
    I suppose to use ghazis because this is global name of this unit and many people can easily recognize this historical unit.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I suppose to remove hashashims. The unit isn't historical unit. Hashashims aren't soldier. They are assassins. Their leader is Hassan Sabbah and their headquarter is Alamut castle in Persia.
    Battlefield assassins also share the same place with hashashims. They should be removed.
    ahhh ok I understand, yes I have though about a mounted Ghazi unit since Ghazi were first and foremost "raiders" i'll make sure to implement that later on.

    Yes I'm removing all the battlefield assasin / hashasims , even if some showed up in battle. the cases were way too rare to warrent a unit (let alone 3) to represent given the limitation of the game.



    Thinking ahead to potential Abbasid introductions, I think I might move the current light swordsmen Ghazi to use as the Ayyarun unit for the Abbasid / Kwarezmid, and simply have the Turks with the only faction that have Ghazi (so no more need for "Turkish Ghazi" just Ghazi) .

    Other units I plan on doing for Islamic factions (that i have thought up of anyway)

    a. remove Tabbariyya from the Egyptian Roster (Tabar zin was a Persian Axe) and make a Dismounted Khassaki instead (ultra heavy defensive swordsmen comparable to late knights crazy heavy )

    b. reintroducing Nubian Spearmen (obviously renamed to something else) I'm still debating wether it should be a pure spear / shield or a spear / javelin / shield hybrid ... (if I do the former then I'll make a later too.) for Moors and Early Egypt (and Abbasid when they are made)

    c. consider adding back in the old berber spearmen as the bedouin spearmens. due to the rather large role the bedouin played in the region especially moors / egypt and potentially abbasid, just one unit is somewhat of a under representation.

    d. probably rename the Saracen Militia Adath Militia so that it make sense.

    e. maybe a better jihad unit, it doesn't make sense that Christians get a million different Crusade unit and the Muslims essentially gets 2.
    1180, an unprecedented period of peace and prosperity in East Asia, it's technology and wealth is the envy of the world. But soon conflict will engulf the entire region with great consequences and lasting effects for centuries to come, not just for this region, but the entire known world, when one man, one people, unites.....

  6. #86
    PedroL's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: [beta version 1!] The Historical Roster Revision Mod!

    Quote Originally Posted by RollingWave View Post
    Pedro, I have scouts as the generic basic catholic cavalries right now ( i changed their shields so they don't look as viking like) since mounted sergeants are actually fairly heavy for a basic cavarly, and vilan knights is recruitable via the town hall buildings (Reflecting that they were generally local polticial leaders) i'll try to add in the dismounted version and Besteiros de Conto

    as for sergeant spearmen, I think i'll use the BC's KOJ sergeants (and cards) for my next update (which also includes a pole arm sergeant too, solving my problem for the lack of one for my Guisarme sergeants). so my next update will include a completely revamped sergeant look so they no longer look so much like the peasant units

    a couple of questions for Pedro and Omen

    Pedro: is the pully crossbow of the Besteiros de Conto closer to a arbalest? though I think there's a bit too few version of crossbows in RC's current representation anyway. hmmm... also, can you suggest some special units for Spain or Aragon?

    Omen: if you know more about Bashi, my question is ... a. how common were they? b. so they are generally unarmoed single handed swordsmen (but i think a couple of them are holding pistols? so maybe this is more of a late representation? though that would be quite interesting if they are a pistol unit hmmm... though IIRC you need to mod animation files to make a pistol animation for foot soliders as there is only one for cavalries right now)

    second question, what dates did the Deli cavalry start to show up? those drawings are mostly from the late 16th century and beyond (so a bit out of the timeframe). also, i'm no artist. so i'll need to be able to find some other models that have those sort of fancy feather shields to be able to do anything like that.
    Besteiros de Conto
    (The Conquest of Ceuta 1415)
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Also Besteiros de Conto do Mar (Navy Crossbowmens)
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Here a new picture of Besteiros de Conto (Similar to this)
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    About the Cavalry: Well as you know portugal didnt have Scouts, They have Ginetes (They were used to ambush muslims. Hit and run tactics.
    Besides that kind of tactics, Portugal had:
    Feudal Knights (Families Knights, similar to Barons);
    Vilan Knights (similar to Militia Cavalry);
    Portuguese Knights (Elite of Portuguese Cavalry (also know as Acobertados);
    and Knights from the several Military Orders.

    In Portugal the Military Orders were very important in the Reconquista and to fight against other Christian Kingdoms.
    The Templar's Order were very important (the First Portuguese King "D. Afonso Henriques was a Templar Brother, but allowed to married);
    The Order of Avis;
    The Order of Hospitaller;
    and the Order of Santiago (This Order only fought against muslims, never fought against others Christians Kingdoms).

    (This Cavalry were used until the 14th century) In the 15th Century Portugal had different kind of Cavalry) I can explain to you if you wanted.


    Castille and Aragon Well until the 14 th Century,
    Castille and Leon have several Militia Crossbowmen
    here:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    -Almughavars
    (Almogàvers)

    -Peasant Archer
    (Sagitario, Campesino)

    - Militia Archers
    (Sagitario, de mesnada de cibdad ó villa)

    - Archers
    (Sagitario, de acostamiento montañas de Cantábria)

    -Galician crossbowman
    (Ballestero gallego)

    -Crossbow Militia
    (Ballestero, de mesnada de cibdad ó villa)


    Aragon
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    -Navarre Javelinmen
    -Almughavars (Elite)
    -Levy Archers
    -Basque Archers (elite)
    -Militia Crossbowman
    -Italian Crossbowmen (mercenaries)




    QUESTION: What is you Early Era Time Line?
    Different rosters for different time lines.
    Last edited by PedroL; December 05, 2010 at 11:18 AM.
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  7. #87
    RollingWave's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: [beta version 1!] The Historical Roster Revision Mod!

    well here's a test run for my sergeants... hmmmm the BC onces need further adjustment (at least removing those horrendous red caps. what the hell!)

    (bc models, will be used for guisarme sergeants and sergeant spearmen)
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    (adjusted ss models and reunilizing the norman sergant model , well be used for sergeant swordsmen and mounted sergeants)

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Pedro: my timeframe, for early is mostly considering 1100-1300, and anything beyond that is consider later half. though i'm mostly giving thoughts to early half first since later half catholics have a huge roster anyway.

    How is the Castillian Almughavars different from the Aragonese?

    Also those pictures don't seem to be working for me right now.

    I am contemplating on how to implement the order knights into the game more reasonablly.... currently the guild method is just too uuuggh but it would be rather silly if any catholic factions could build order knights anywhere. there must be some sort of a balance .... hmmmm..... the best I can think of now is to make the guilds constructable in islamic / pagan areas and areas clost to them that have been known to have a strong order presence (like Iberia and to a lesser extend hungary)
    Last edited by RollingWave; November 30, 2010 at 12:42 PM.
    1180, an unprecedented period of peace and prosperity in East Asia, it's technology and wealth is the envy of the world. But soon conflict will engulf the entire region with great consequences and lasting effects for centuries to come, not just for this region, but the entire known world, when one man, one people, unites.....

  8. #88
    Meneth's Avatar I mod, therefore I am
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    Default Re: [beta version 1!] The Historical Roster Revision Mod!

    Modify those caps a bit, and you suddenly have Christmas hats. Would be very fitting
    You should definitely make a Santa unit.

  9. #89
    PedroL's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: [beta version 1!] The Historical Roster Revision Mod!

    In the Iberia Cavalry didnt have small round Shields like the Vikings!!, They were similar to the moors (Adarga) or Oval Shiled
    Portuguese Cavalry
    Cavalry

    Cavalry












    Battle Of Aljubarrota
    1385
    (Portugal Vs Castille and Leon)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Aljubarrota

    Ginete (1400)
    http://xenophongroup.com/EMW/article001.htm
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Moors Light Cavalry (1450)
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Last edited by PedroL; November 30, 2010 at 09:13 PM.
    Vencerei não só estes adversários mas quantos a meu Rei forem contrários

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  10. #90

    Default Re: [beta version 1!] The Historical Roster Revision Mod!

    Quote Originally Posted by RollingWave View Post
    (at least removing those horrendous red caps. what the hell!)
    To be fair, the Kettle Hat was amongst the most numerous for the non-knightly infantries. Not sure how many of them were painted, though the Maciejowski Bible seem to suggest that it wasn't that strange a thought.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 






  11. #91
    omen1710's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: [beta version 1!] The Historical Roster Revision Mod!

    Rollingwave; you should make Hungarian units to more historical. Hungary needs a huge changing in order to arrive more historical form.I think, magyar mod can help you for this situation.

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=583

    if you like history, there are good historical informations about akinjis and kapikulu sipahis in the following link.

    http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showth...s-of-the-Porte
    Last edited by omen1710; November 30, 2010 at 07:44 PM.




  12. #92
    PedroL's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: [beta version 1!] The Historical Roster Revision Mod!

    Portuguese Jinetes phantom
    Missing textures

    Another thing Portuguese Levy archers and peasants crossbows, why they are red, and yellow? They must be Gray and blue.
    Vencerei não só estes adversários mas quantos a meu Rei forem contrários

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  13. #93

    Default Re: [beta version 1!] The Historical Roster Revision Mod!

    I have the same problem as PedroL had. All I get are crashes in the loading screen every time. I've done several clean SS reinstalls tonight. Game works perfectly until I copy in the HRR files, including on your settings. Guess I'll wait for a stable version.

  14. #94
    RollingWave's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: [beta version 1!] The Historical Roster Revision Mod!

    your right, i missed the jinetes, because I was changing them to aor units for other factions if they get to the area (thus using the mercenary_unit trait)

    the peasants etc is similiar i've changed it around a bit so that they now mostly use the same color as rebel to reflect that in reality peasants (and most low level units) didn't wear different colors, they all looked the same if they're from similar regions anyway. but in my first try i ended up making most of the merc entires using the old norman entires which is why they all look red... trying to filter those out and change them back to more normal looking greyish colors

    i'll try to get a updated version out soon... i'll look into how to do the SMM more properly hmmm... i've fixed those and added new sergeant looks to the game.


    Another issue i've tested around and is potentially considering implimenting.... changing a lot of the spear units from schiltrom to shield wall, since with large shield / spear fighting method shield wall makes infinite more since than schiltrom, which was mostly a long spear / early pike formation thing ... this offers more different variety for spearmens too, since we can have more offensively oriented spearmens (no formation, impeteous etc) and more defenseive oriented onces ( shield wall )

    In my testing, shield wall, especially in the right situation, is significantly more useful than schiltrom in defending a cavalry charge for spearmens. though it obviously have it's limits and it depending a lot on how wide and deep both the spearmens and cavalries and split into.
    1180, an unprecedented period of peace and prosperity in East Asia, it's technology and wealth is the envy of the world. But soon conflict will engulf the entire region with great consequences and lasting effects for centuries to come, not just for this region, but the entire known world, when one man, one people, unites.....

  15. #95

    Default Re: [beta version 1!] The Historical Roster Revision Mod!

    "I have the same problem as PedroL had. All I get are crashes in the loading screen every time. I've done several clean SS reinstalls tonight. Game works perfectly until I copy in the HRR files, including on your settings. Guess I'll wait for a stable version. "

    Pedro said he got it to work after using the advice Rollingwave and myself gave him. Why don't you read it.


    Oh and there is talk of MSC adding in Sweden and Georgia as new factions. Why don't you remove the timurids and just work on the abbasids? Then you could create one really done faction and just put in Sweden and Georgia when Meneth and people finish it. That way there would be 3 new factions. I'm worried about this mod not working with MSC in the future, as I really like it but MSC is pretty essential.
    Last edited by Smokey Bacon; December 01, 2010 at 09:45 AM.

  16. #96
    RollingWave's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: [beta version 1!] The Historical Roster Revision Mod!

    well, mostly because making a new faction is more complicated work than what i have done, and some part of it require skills I don't currently have and will probably take a while to figure out ... so that's not really in the consideration until I have gotten the current stuff down to a more stable level.... and obviously we're not very close yet
    1180, an unprecedented period of peace and prosperity in East Asia, it's technology and wealth is the envy of the world. But soon conflict will engulf the entire region with great consequences and lasting effects for centuries to come, not just for this region, but the entire known world, when one man, one people, unites.....

  17. #97

    Default Re: [beta version 1!] The Historical Roster Revision Mod!

    Ah well, fair enough, I guess that means you could just work out what is best to do in the future when you get round to doing it.

    And if you explain how to open all the files where the in-game text will be I could look through them and check for spelling/grammar mistakes. Also I can help writing unit and building descriptions, I would offer more help but I'm not much good at modding.

  18. #98
    RollingWave's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: [beta version 1!] The Historical Roster Revision Mod!

    the only part that I really need a look is in the the export_unit file unit the text folder in the data folder of SS 6.3, should normally be ss6.3/data/text/export_units.txt

    if your not sure what I changed, you can use the winmerge program and compare it to the original text and it should become more obvious
    1180, an unprecedented period of peace and prosperity in East Asia, it's technology and wealth is the envy of the world. But soon conflict will engulf the entire region with great consequences and lasting effects for centuries to come, not just for this region, but the entire known world, when one man, one people, unites.....

  19. #99
    PedroL's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: [beta version 1!] The Historical Roster Revision Mod!

    Quote Originally Posted by RollingWave View Post
    your right, i missed the jinetes, because I was changing them to aor units for other factions if they get to the area (thus using the mercenary_unit trait)

    the peasants etc is similiar i've changed it around a bit so that they now mostly use the same color as rebel to reflect that in reality peasants (and most low level units) didn't wear different colors, they all looked the same if they're from similar regions anyway. but in my first try i ended up making most of the merc entires using the old norman entires which is why they all look red... trying to filter those out and change them back to more normal looking greyish colors

    i'll try to get a updated version out soon... i'll look into how to do the SMM more properly hmmm... i've fixed those and added new sergeant looks to the game.


    Another issue i've tested around and is potentially considering implimenting.... changing a lot of the spear units from schiltrom to shield wall, since with large shield / spear fighting method shield wall makes infinite more since than schiltrom, which was mostly a long spear / early pike formation thing ... this offers more different variety for spearmens too, since we can have more offensively oriented spearmens (no formation, impeteous etc) and more defenseive oriented onces ( shield wall )

    In my testing, shield wall, especially in the right situation, is significantly more useful than schiltrom in defending a cavalry charge for spearmens. though it obviously have it's limits and it depending a lot on how wide and deep both the spearmens and cavalries and split into.
    Besides all the little mystakes.. YOU HAVE DONE A GREAT WORK. Ok.

    Shield Wall and Phalanx wall.

    Portuguese Feudal Knights (Gray and Blue)
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Portuguese standard

    Portuguese standard


    Is an interpretation of the great Portuguese navigator Diogo Cao lift the standard of St. Augustine at Cape Santa Maria, south of Benguela in Angola in 1482. These Standards were sent by King John II of Portugal and served to mark the territories discovered by Portuguese navigators in the service of the King This Standard is one stone left the limestone quarries of Lisbon, measuring 2.16 m apart from the base and the cross, and weighs about 500kg. The front face is engraved in high relief, the shell of D. John II. Diogo wears a robe with fur lining and a cap of blue velvet. The waist with a sword takes care of the typical crab-century Portuguese navigators. XV. It is accompanied by a priest and three sailors with the skin reddened from the sun due to the long months of travel.




    Last edited by PedroL; December 01, 2010 at 12:01 PM.
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  20. #100

    Default Re: [beta version 1!] The Historical Roster Revision Mod!

    Ok I'll take a look later tonight. Where would I use winmerge to compare too? There dosn't appear to be a similiar folder in the vanilla installation?

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