I wonder about Riflemen

Do you find them useful? Just asking.

not really, only thing there good for is stakes but french volts are alot cheaper for that purpose imo. I have used them before on grassy with lights either side to try to get the first shot out of my opponent but i have not found another use for me yet.

i often took a couple against france, but they are really exxpensive, so you are best served with a meat shield or something.
i notice some campers like to use them, for the range advantage, but also to stake the artillery, to protect the sides/rear of the art

I kind of don't really care anymore whether I get lights or rifles; since I take so few lights anyway, the smaller number of riflemen doesn't bother me too much.
Uses for them I find are to snipe artillery; support line in firefight with elites from a safe distance away; and take shots at horses to force them to either attack or retreat to a distance where it's easier to notice them starting a charge.

i find that it's really useful mixing them in with your cav. Once my opponent's cav strayed a little too close to my rifles and i got a clean volley off at them. killed about 20 horses outright and allowed my lower quality and outnumbered lancers to carry the day against heavy cav

Originally Posted by Titus Maximius Thongus

...allowed my lower quality and outnumbered lancers to carry the day against heavy cav

Lancers pwn heavy cav just about any day of the week...just remember to withdraw if the enemy doesn't rout within 15 seconds.

As for rifles,I only use them as france as they're higher accuracy means they get the same kills as chasseurs + stakes. Any other nation,bring 5 lights,maybe 1 rifle if you plan on a defensive/passive role.

Originally Posted by AqwertyBqwerty

As for rifles,I only use them as france as they're higher accuracy means they get the same kills as chasseurs + stakes.

I believe you're talking about voltigeurs, who have 100 range and are not counted as rifles.

I find rifles wonderfully useful and if a nation has them available I will incorporate one regiment into my army. Many times I've come across highly defensive players who have no idea what to do when my rifle unit starts to snipe their out-ranged troops. The extra range really catches people off guard and with 80 accuracy almost every volley from a rifle unit induces morale shock due to 'recent casualties', particularly against line units.

The mistake people make with rifles is bringing too many of them. Rifles cannot be relied on to form the bulk of an army. One meatshield followed by a rush while the rifles reload will overwhelm a rifle line very easily, and once that is lost the rest of the army is soon to follow as the money had all been spent on the rifles. It's best to treat rifles in the same way you would artillery; a unit that supports your main army and forces an out-ranged enemy to take action.

Originally Posted by Keiichi

The mistake people make with rifles is bringing too many of them. Rifles cannot be relied on to form the bulk of an army.

Very true. To expand, they cannot only not form the bulk, they shouldn't replace the skirmish line either; use light inf for that. Light inf will outgun rifles in 1v1.

It's best to treat rifles in the same way you would artillery; a unit that supports your main army and forces an out-ranged enemy to take action.

Exactly. Their extended range allows them to add their firepower to where it's needed without having to move around too much, much like I describe my howitzer usage in my artillery thread.

actually if you take lights out of the equation in a sweden build - its probably one of the strongest armies in the game - just take a few militia to absorb your opponents light fire till you get your line in range - heavy cav is good and they have shooty cav as well

IMO it good to play the occasional game without lights at all so you have to learn to counter lights without using lights. then when you play again with ligths you will find any advantage your oppontent has with lights is easierly overcome.

having alot of lights can also be a disadvantage on many terrain maps

Daniu - i actually havnt thought to much of late about just a couple to snipe at elites for a safe range - im going to try to work that into my sweden build - very good idea this may add a bit more balance to that build

I swear old guard are bullet proof. I was playing as Sweden against France once, and my opponent had 2 units of old guard pushing hard down my right. I had 2 units of rifles and line firing and retreating, so rifles fire, retreat behind lines, reload, lines fire, retreat behind rifles, rifles fire, piew piew so on and so forth.

but the old guard came on, and on, and on and just ground my guys down. After they smashed my guys to bits they were only down to half strength and it took my entire cav force to wipe them out.

of course that was like 1/3 of my army used to destroy 2 old guard, and the rest of the french army spanked me a new one

yes

Originally Posted by Titus Maximius Thongus

I swear old guard are bullet proof. I was playing as Sweden against France once, and my opponent had 2 units of old guard pushing hard down my right. I had 2 units of rifles and line firing and retreating, so rifles fire, retreat behind lines, reload, lines fire, retreat behind rifles, rifles fire, piew piew so on and so forth.

but the old guard came on, and on, and on and just ground my guys down. After they smashed my guys to bits they were only down to half strength and it took my entire cav force to wipe them out.

of course that was like 1/3 of my army used to destroy 2 old guard, and the rest of the french army spanked me a new one

yes

Ultra unit size?

The bullets were probably to afraid of OG so they "missed" instead. Or they have light weighted cuirass.

Lol. I noticed a similar feature to guards and US marines in ETW. I think elites are trained with the force. Like jedi or seomthing.

I have actually never had good kill rate on each volley, its always like 10-8 kills per volley and if I lucky 20 kills (Large size)

I cant remember unit size. was large I think. I finally managed to destroy those OG with 4 units of lancers smashing into them from the rear when they didnt have enough men to form squares

they can be on terrain maps u should bring one or so but generally 100 range men are better as soon as they get in range as their are more of them

Originally Posted by Preatorians100

they can be on terrain maps u should bring one or so but generally 100 range men are better as soon as they get in range as their are more of them

Cemats?No way. Have you ever seen those guys against campers at waterloo?

EDIT: Oops,wrong thread.Yeah,I usually would prefer a light + meat shield over a skir,

a unit of them can be very useful in pulling enemy light inf into the range of your light inf so that you get the opening volley. also, in an above post i said if you can attach a unit of them to your cav wings, a volley or two from your rifles can really balance out an unfavourable cav battle for you