Lithuania Campaign: Dealing with Crusade?

[Rhavanna]

Hey everyone,

I have been LOVING this mod recently! It has gotten me addicted to medieval 2 again! And the chance to play as a Pagan faction? OMG yes, so thanks!

Anyway... playing as the only Pagan faction out there is HARD.

I'm only about 49 turns into my campaign so far, but I've already captured a good number of cities, and there are no more rebel settlements in sight. Randomly out of the blue, Denmark declared war on me. Not a big deal, I can fight them.

I'm allies with Poland, Kevian Rus, and Norvogord. I was just about to start my great expansion into Scandinavia when... BAM the pope calls a crusade on my capital... FML. In one turn, every single catholic faction declares war on me, Poland included, (traitorous jerks). Seemingly the entire world is out to get me now, all my generals are aging rapidly, (haven't lost any in battle yet though), and I haven't acquired a new general/character in at least 20+ turns.

I'm pretty terrified at the moment. The bulk of my armies, (as well as my two remaining generals under 55...), had just landed on the shores of Sweden, but are quickly going to have to turn around to protect the mainland.

So I'm asking for help! The whole world's declared war on me, I'm still one of the smaller factions, and I'm down to 2 generals actually capable of fighting! What do I do?? T_T;

I fear my empire will be crushed! All help is much appreciated! I haven't a clue on how to deal with the sheer number of crusading armies which will surely be arriving any minute now. Thanks!

quick edit: And to add insult to injury, the king is 76! He's gonna croak any day now...

[Ichon]

Well Lithuania is not surrounded by Catholic kingdoms so you can relatively know the direction of attack. Novgorod and Kiev are allies but probably not able to be deeply trusted however are not immediate threats.

You mentioned rebel regions so I am guessing you are playing early campaign. In that case Lithuanian cavalry are supreme. I recommend simply waiting for the Crusaders to arrive with almost all the Lithuanian cavalry you have near Vilnius. You can still advance with other armies into Scandinavia though if you have even 1 extra Lithuanian cavalry there it makes it much easier.

You probably should have between 8-10 Lithuanian cavalry at this point in the campaign. There is a large hill just south of Vilnius that makes a perfect place to engage Crusading armies you can expect armies from Poland, Hungary, and HRE to arrive quite quickly. The other Crusade armies will take some time to arrive and so if you can prepare reinforcements and sit them in Hrodna or outside Vilnius (in case you can't break the siege immediately) it would be good.

Biggest thing to watch for is allied Crusading armies or 2 traveling together. With Lithuanian cavalry you should be able to defeat any single Crusading army but with 2 or more likely you will run out of arrows so you need a night fighter general in command of the Lithuanian cavalry army. Only other advice is prepare to the invasion but don't devote every resource to it because you will need to be raiding or gaining income to fuel your resistance in other areas. Scandinavia is a perfect opportunity.

[delra]

It's easiest if you let the city fall to the very first crusade and retake it shortly after. Unless you are extremely ambitious. But that will cost you your allies and everything else.

In general over time you want to become something like the Golden Horde subjugating the whole east while keeping as small a border with the west as possible. This means Russians have to fall right after the rebels fall. With strong economic base between Novgorod and Kiev you can spam enough religious units to hold your ground until late plate or so. That's when I gave up. :-\

[Paladin94610]

Yes, giving up the capital is a best option if you can't defend with ease or have serious fighting on frontiers. But when you beat a crusade or jihad, the joy will overcome your worries and excitements. A TW player's joy. Lithuanian Cavalry and followers of Perkunas as buffer infantry will do the best I guess.

[gornison]

I say - give the city to the Spain, Portugal or Sicily or Crusader States. Crusade will end. The settlement will probably rebel because of: religious unrest, lack of garrison and distance from capital. You will then take it from rebels and suffer no reputation penalty and you will have time to prepare for the next crusade.

By the way: I have noticed that both in 6.2 and 6.3 Pope prefers to send crusades on Lithuania then on muslim factions. Weird…

[Paladin94610]

I say - give the city to the Spain, Portugal or Sicily or Crusader States. Crusade will end. The settlement will probably rebel because of: religious unrest, lack of garrison and distance from capital. You will then take it from rebels and suffer no reputation penalty and you will have time to prepare for the next crusade.

By the way: I have noticed that both in 6.2 and 6.3 Pope prefers to send crusades on Lithuania then on muslim factions. Weird…

I think the pope prefer to send crusades to Vilnius because it is faction controlled while Acre or Damascus is usually rebel controlled.

PS: And Lithuania, Byzantines, Turks and CS are some of the most difficult campaigns in 6.3.

[cezarip]

In the last two games (6.3) with England and Romans, the crusade went first to Cairo and then to Frankfurt. None against Lithuania.

[RollingWave]

it depends, if Villinus is a Fortress or better with Ballista tower, I suggest you to defend, if it's not (and if ur only at 50 turns or so that is likely) then I suggest you abandon it to the first army that comes and then resiege it.

The question you must ask is... is it easier to defend it against several full stacks at a time or is it easir to retake it from one full stack? it is more than possible to defend if you have upgraded towers, but would be quite unlikely if you don't

Also, Lithuania isn't the only Pagan faction, theres' also the Cumans

[Rokiniz]

im playing Liths turn 180 or so, but no crusade for me . my its because i dont fight with the papals or my teritory is all the east of europe . but the best way to deal with crusades is to give up the capital and u can retake it with ease a couple of turn later

[Xander]

Same thing Happened to me on my Fatimid Campaign, I was just getting my economy going and boom crusade on Qairo -.-, turn 50 as well -_-. The good thing about the Fatimids and the Lithuanians as that they both have amazing cavalry. Generally crusading armies consist of 4-6 units of peasants/ religious fanatics, Your cavalry alone should be able to sweep right through them. The rest are usually Poor quality units, the only trouble is the general...

I'm holding up easily against the crusaders, producing many gold chevron Arab cavalry in the process.

[k/t]

The Mongols are also pagan.

[Rhavanna]

Much thanks for all the replies so far!

Sounds like my options are either to weather the storm, or let Muirthemne, (I rename all my cities, but it was originally Vilinus) fall.

My other two castles are Madrigal and Tandem, and all 3 are quickly spamming military units. I guess I'll save roughly before the first crusading armies hit and see whether or not I can survive.

Fortunately I have 3 units of Noble cavalry all chilling inside Muirthemne, (free upkeep for elite heavy cav? yes please! ), and so far *most* of my opponents have been fielding armies of peasants and militia. I'm not sure what the first crusading armies will show up with.

If I do somehow hold the crusade off... will the pope just declare another a few years later? That guy is a downright jerk to me.

If I let the city fall to the first attacking army... the rest of the crusading armies will go home? Will their countries of origin call for peace? Right now basically the entirely Catholic world declared war on me. Even Poland who I was fantastic allies with. Gave their leader my 10-charm princess too... T_T

Should I really stock up on just crazy numbers of Lithuanian cavalry? I *love* these units and usually keep 4 or so in every army. Should I start massing them like mad?

Muirthemne is just a regular castle... no ballista towers yet sadly. The year is still 1148 or so, still very early in years.

Again, thanks for all the help! I seriously want this campaign to work out!

(And thanks for pointing out that hill south of Muirthemne. I am going to abuse the crap out of that)

[Rhavanna]

Annnnd here they are! The first 3 crusading armies are at my doorstep!

Fortunately, I have 3 well-trained assassins, and a spy, so I'll know who's coming and hopefully murder their leaders.

Two full stacks of angry crusaders are sitting only a few pixels from Muirthemne. However, they are composed almost entirely of militia, and I have 4 units of elite heavy cav inside the castle. This is going to be a ridiculous battle, lol. Also the Danish king is here coming to do battle with me personally! And he's almost 80! Does anyone know if his "Beyond Battle" stat will affect the morale of allied armies as well? I'd love if the entire enemy force started with a nice morale debuff!

[king spartacus]

Weird. I'm playing as Lithuania also but the pope has shown me no aggression neither has any catholic faction. Then again I also give the pope 100 flourine every turn.

Would you mind posting a screen shot of your campaign? If your interested I'll post mine.

[Rhavanna]

Haha, of course I can post some screenshots. I feel I may have sealed my own doom though just now.

The first crusading army from Venice attacked Muirthemne. I promptly sallied forth and fought them. Enemy army of over 2000 men. I left 41 alive, losing only 12% of my army. Getting a little carried away after the battle, I ransomed the prisoners... and they refused... causing me to execute just about everyone left. My next relations report showed the entire world going to "abysmal". Ruh roh....

I'll post some screenshots in a bit when I can.

[king spartacus]

Heres mine. Allied with Novgord however they chose Kiev alliance over ours so I started destroying both of them. I currently have perfect alliances with Poland, Denmark and Cumans.

[Logios]

I play Lithuania as well but have moved to late area, not because I dont think the crusaders can be beaten but because I usually get CTD on the turn after the crusade against Vilnius is declared.
I also recommend Lithuanian cavalry as the most important unit in lithuanian armies. They are mobile, fires when moving, rather long range. Combining with axemen is important when fighting spearmen. Against other mounted archers make sure to kill these first using all missiles in youre arsenal. Being the only one on the field with mounted archers is a huge advantage. Surround, take prisoners, being outflanked usually is highly demoralizing to infantry.

[ShadowKiller2000]

Yes, if the General is "Beyond Battle" he gets very large penalties to HP, and morale.

It is tough playing at Lithuania......even if you survive the initial attacks, and crusades.

Like you said, the pope hates you and keeping Catholic allies is almost impossible. (Unless they are Excommed, and stay that way).

And your neighbors will back stabb you at the first chance they get, both Novgorod, and Kiev.

My advice for Lithuania is similar to what others stated for surviving the crusades, and I also have a few other tips from experience.

1) Like others said either destroy the armies in the field, or leave the settlement and take it back later. Your call.

2) After you survive, try to ally any Catholic nation that has been Ex-commed. I like to ally with HRE......

If you team up with the Germans you can crush Poland between the two of you.

Novgorod, and Kiev will be good targets for expansion as attacking them will not anger the pope any more than you already have just for being Pagan.

The lands are spread out and poor..... but they are good to have to generate income anyway. Plus you want to start growing these places as fast as possible for when the Mongols arrive in force.

Horse archers will save your game in the begining....as the game progresses your roster is pretty much as good as the Western units......until Gothic armor and pike and shot armies start to appear.....after that it sucks to be Lithuania. Your infantry and cavalry will have low attacks, and lower armor compared to the West. And the only thing you have to counter Lancers......is Halbred Militia.....Joy.

But I digress.

I hope you survive the campaign, it is a lot of fun.....and challenging as anything.

[JorisofHolland]

If you've already got Ducal cavalry or Noble Sons and stuff, they can save the day just as well as Lithuanian Cavalry. With Lithuania, it is all about getting more cavalry more often more rapidly whilst you tech up your way to the Ducal's infantry. Giltine's chosen are also really nice for cutting down overly eager crusaders storming through your gate.

[Rhavanna]

Heya,

Well that particular campaign proved too bothersome to continue. I think I could have held off the crusade eventually.... but I was devoting all my resources to it, and my reputation with the entirety of the world was at "abysmal." So I've started over on H/H, and am trying out a whole bunch of tricks that I've been learning recently. I'm always amazed at how much there is about this game that I haven't picked up yet.

Anyway restarted, and as soon as I got my first princess, I sent her straight to Rome. The pope never accepted just giving him money or tribute, but he would agree to sell map info to me over and over again for a decent amount of money. That kept him from calling crusades while I allied with Rus and Nov. Eventually once I had the money saved up, I paid the pope 20,000 florins to ally with me... and success! Now just occasional tribute keeps me in the clear with him. I saw Norway and Denmark attacking Poland, so I figured they must have gotten excommunicated. I quickly went all out on Poland, and ended up actually killing them with assassins. Whole royal family dead = rebel settlements! Pretty cool that my general has "Crusher of Poland" or something like that as a trait.

Luck is with me on this campaign. My generals are just having kids left and right. The pope still loves me, and now I'm battling Rus and Nov. Lithuanian cavalry are crazy powerful. I've wrecked massive infantry armies just by abusing this one unit. And my first cities have gotten large enough to train Devias's Guard... so I've got some crazy heavy cavalry with little upkeep. Rus and Nov are going to fall really quickly.

My economy is strong enough at this point that I can just pay the pope off indefinitely. I worry the campaign is going to be a bit too easy now though, t.t;