On Morale

Thread: On Morale

  1. daniu's Avatar

    daniu said:

    Icon3 On Morale

    Hi all,
    after some discussions on the MP forum, I decided to look into the db files once more to get a better grip on how morale works, and share.
    This is a short explanation of how the morale system works and gives a list of the morale effects and their values.
    Some of these effects are known, for some I have to take an educated guess, and some few I really don't know.

    The Morale System
    The general system works like this:
    We all know every unit has a "morale" value. During battle, a unit will come under several effects modifying their morale; some of these are displayed in the mouse-over hover info window.
    The color bar underneath a unit flag encodes the general state of a unit: eager, steady, confident and so on. These states are defined by the following morale ranges.

    Morale State Ranges Broken: -15 to -2
    Timeout 600
    Shaken: -3 to 2
    Steady: 0 to 10
    Confident: 8 to 30
    Eager : 24 to 50
    Impetuous: 50+

    As you can see, these states overlap. The reason for this is to make the states more stable and keep a unit from toggling between two if it's on the edge.
    For instance, a unit with morale 4 is in state "Steady". If it gets influenced by -3, its morale becomes 1, but although this is also in the "shaken" range, it will stay in its current state.
    Now, if another influence of -2 comes into effect, the morale becomes -1. This is out of the Steady range, so the unit becomes "shaken".
    If the effect disappears again, the morale will be 1 again, but the state will still be "shaken".

    There is also the special state of "wavering":
    Wavering: -5 to 1
    Timeout: 40

    I think this state will always be entered if the unit's value come into its range, and the unit will switch out of it automatically after the timeout.
    Actually, in the example above, the unit will become "wavering" after the first morale drop to 1.
    From there, it can enter either "Steady" or "Shaken", I'm not sure which one will take; I'm guessing the lower one ("Shaken"). This would make units easier to route overall.
    The wavering state gives you a last minute opportunity to save a unit from routing (if it comes between -5 and -2).

    Morale Effects and Values
    Now, for the effects themselves and their values. I tried to partition them into manageable chunks.
    These are from the original .pack file, they may have been changed in one or several of the patches.

    Combat Charge bonus: 5
    Timeout 80

    Column formation: 5
    Fighting cavalry: -4
    Under artillery fire: -4
    Under small arms fire: -2
    Flanks secure: 4
    Flanks exposed: -1
    Flanks exposed, multiple -2
    Attacked in flank: -3
    Attacked in rear: -5


    Exhaustion Tired: -1
    Very Tired: -2
    Exhausted: -4


    Terrain Fortification: 6
    Fortification, compromised: 3
    On high ground: 4


    Unit Abilities Frightened: -4
    Horses frightened: -4
    Fear range: 50
    Inspired: 6
    Inspire (general): 4
    Rally (general) : 15-45
    Sadly, I didn't find how many stars give what bonus exactly; I also didn't find the global morale effect value for a given number of stars.


    Routing Allies Distance flank: 30
    Distance front: 75
    Funnily enough, the actual value for "friends routing" I didn't find.

    General dead: -2
    General died recently: -6
    General fled recently: -6


    Diverse/Unknown Panic: -50
    I'm not sure what this "Panic" effect is. My assumption is that this is applied when a unit enters "Broken" state and removed after the "Broken Timeout" has expired.

    Blood Bonus (?):
    5: 2
    7: 4
    12: 7
    This may have something to do with the "damage inflicted on enemy"; I have no idea what the 5, 7 and 12 could mean.
    EDIT:
    from the description: yes this is damage inflicted; it is "unit killed <x> percent of enemy within last 4 seconds".

    Surprised: -7
    Timeout 300


    Casualties I marked the values on the left as percentages; it's an assumption that this is what they designate.

    Recent Shock Threshold: 20
    6% : -1
    10%: -2
    15%: -3
    33%: -7
    50%: -15
    EDIT: from description:
    The "Shock Threshold" is the "percentage of casualties in the last 4 seconds needed for morale shock".
    The other percentages seem to be in addition to that, also within the last 4 seconds.
    What "shock" does exactly, I still don't know.

    I'm guessing "Shock Threshold" is the time in which the casualties have to be taken to cause the "Recent Casualties" effect.

    Extended 10%: -2
    15%: -4
    33%: -6
    50%: -8
    80%: -15
    EDIT:
    "extended" refers to the casualties in the last 60 seconds.


    Army 20%: -1
    40%: -3
    60%: -7
    80%: -30
    90%: -30
    "Destruction": -20
    I'm guessing this refers to an allied army, the other values to the unit's one.
    EDIT:
    These are the percentages that apply without a timeout.
    Description for "destruction": "the army is on the brink of destruction". Still a bit vague...


    Disclaimer:
    Since I don't have access to the code, the mechanics explanation is not guaranteed to be correct; it's what I have deducted after several years of playing.
    I think it's pretty consistent, but if you have any other theories, feel free to post them.

    There are some things that are a bit odd; for example, with the number above, it will be very hard to get a unit into Impetuous (which I definitely have seen though):
    even an elite with base morale 12, on a hill +4, in column formation +5, with secure flanks +4, inspired by a nearby unit +6, only comes up to 31; still quite far from 50.

    Also, there are some effects missing; for instance, the "general still alive" sometimes shows up as a positive effect.

    I used the PackFileManager for NTW and looked into the _kv_morale table.
    Here's the raw data.

    Table Content
    blood_bonus_12 7
    blood_bonus_5 2
    blood_bonus_7 4
    broken_finish_base_timeout 600
    charge_bonus 5
    charge_timeout 80
    ume_encouraged_fortification 6
    extended_casualties_penalty_10 -2
    extended_casualties_penalty_15 -4
    extended_casualties_penalty_33 -6
    extended_casualties_penalty_50 -8
    extended_casualties_penalty_80 -15
    fear_effect_range 50
    fighting_cavalry -4
    morale_base 0
    recent_casualties_penalty_10 -2
    recent_casualties_penalty_15 -3
    recent_casualties_penalty_33 -7
    recent_casualties_penalty_50 -15
    recent_casualties_penalty_6 -1
    recent_casualties_shock_threshold 20
    routing_unit_effect_distance_flank 30
    routing_unit_effect_distance_front 75
    special_ability_inspire_unit_bonus 4
    special_ability_rally_max_bonus 45
    special_ability_rally_min_bonus 15
    surprise_timeout 300
    total_casualties_penalty_20 -1
    total_casualties_penalty_40 -3
    total_casualties_penalty_60 -7
    total_casualties_penalty_80 -30
    total_casualties_penalty_90 -30
    ume_concerned_army_destruction -20
    ume_concerned_attacked_by_artillery -4
    ume_concerned_attacked_by_projectile -2
    ume_concerned_exhausted -4
    ume_concerned_flanks_exposed_multiple -2
    ume_concerned_flanks_exposed_single -1
    ume_concerned_general_dead -2
    ume_concerned_general_died_recently -6
    ume_concerned_general_fled_recently -6
    ume_concerned_horses_frightened -4
    ume_concerned_panic -50
    ume_concerned_surprised -7
    ume_concerned_tired -1
    ume_concerned_unit_frightened -4
    ume_concerned_very_tired -2
    ume_encouraged_column_formation 5
    ume_encouraged_flanks_secure 4
    ume_encouraged_inspired 6
    ume_encouraged_on_the_hill 4
    ums_broken_threshold_lower -15
    ums_broken_threshold_upper -2
    ums_confident_threshold_lower 8
    ums_confident_threshold_upper 30
    ums_eager_threshold_lower 24
    ums_eager_threshold_upper 50
    ums_impetuous_threshold_lower 50
    ums_shaken_threshold_lower -3
    ums_shaken_threshold_upper 2
    ums_steady_threshold_lower 0
    ums_steady_threshold_upper 10
    ums_wavering_threshold_lower -5
    ums_wavering_threshold_upper -1
    was_attacked_in_flank -3
    was_attacked_in_front 0
    was_attacked_in_rear -5
    waver_base_timeout 40
    ume_encouraged_fortification_compromised 3


    EDIT:
    The xml files have been published now, containing descriptions for each table column.
    I added them in throughout the post.
    Last edited by daniu; July 11, 2011 at 06:24 AM. Reason: added descriptions from now-published xml files
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  2. RO Citizen's Avatar

    RO Citizen said:

    Default Re: Morale Explained

    Wow, interesting info. +rep for putting these all together
    [Col] RO Citizen
     
  3. Baron of Strathclyde's Avatar

    Baron of Strathclyde said:

    Default Re: Morale Explained

    Nice one Daniu, always making quality posts, +Rep
     
  4. Ulysses's Avatar

    Ulysses said:

    Default Re: Morale Explained

    Wow, that explains a lot.
    +REP for your research.
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  5. Obvious Spycrab's Avatar

    Obvious Spycrab said:

    Default Re: On Morale

    Very elaborated research, I would rep you if I could. Where did you get all this number from?

    P.S. Very first post on this forum
     
  6. peapd said:

    Default Re: On Morale

    Very interesting, and yet the "which hats are the coolest" thread has more views and replies....

    /ok, I know I'm trolling.
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  7. HWick's Avatar

    HWick said:

    Default Re: On Morale

    Great post,

    I always neglected the morale aspect of the game. Its very interesting what's behind the scenes regarding this.

    This gives me a lot of idea how to capitalise on it during battles.

    Thanks again!
     
  8. Titus Maximius Thongus's Avatar

    Titus Maximius Thongus said:

    Default Re: On Morale

    wow great find Big Cow. well done ^.^
     
  9. Kaunitz's Avatar

    Kaunitz said:

    Default Re: On Morale

    It's about the same as in ETW: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...49#post8437649
    Thank you for posting this! You gave me the idea that the whole routing routine might have something to do with the "panic" factor! I'll do some experiments . Initially, I thought that "panic" is the "routing friends nearby"-factor that you're searching for.

    However, you mention "total casualties" as "army casualties" which is not correct according to my experience. All three categories (recent/extended/total) refer to single units and different time-intervals (recent casualties: a few seconds, extended cas: well,..."more" seconds *g*, total cas: casualties suffered during the whole battle). In ETW, the different factors show up accordingly in the unit-info box. I can't remember exactly, but I think extended casualties show up as "concerned: casualties sustained" and total casualties show up as "concerned: casualties sustained during battle" or vice versa.

    Does the strange and unmoddable "Friends nearby"-bonus still show up in NTW?
    Last edited by Kaunitz; November 20, 2010 at 11:12 AM.
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  10. daniu's Avatar

    daniu said:

    Default Re: On Morale

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaunitz View Post
    You gave me the idea that the whole routing routine might have something to do with the "panic" factor! I'll do some experiments.
    Do tell me what they turned up

    you mention "total casualties" as "army casualties" which is not correct according to my experience. All three categories (recent/extended/total) refer to single units and different time-intervals (recent casualties: a few seconds, extended cas: well,..."more" seconds *g*, total cas: casualties suffered during the whole battle). In ETW, the different factors show up accordingly in the unit-info box. I can't remember exactly, but I think extended casualties show up as "concerned: casualties sustained" and total casualties show up as "concerned: casualties sustained during battle" or vice versa.
    Hmmm... but there is also a "concerned: army losses" display which I take those to be; I'll stick with my interpretation If only because there is only one threshold but you would need two for your third loss period.
    Actually, another point in favor: MP battles tend to have casualties of 60% for the loser and 40% of the winner; this could be due to the 60% giving the large drop in morale for the remaining troops.
    Maybe "casualties sustained" includes casualties from prior battles? That couldn't occur in custom/MP battles then though.

    Does the strange and unmoddable "Friends nearby"-bonus still show up in NTW?
    Yes; belongs to the missing effects I mention.
    It's also possible that some effects have several displays; maybe "friends nearby" is equal to "flanks secure" (doubt it though).
    Last edited by daniu; November 20, 2010 at 11:52 AM.
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  11. Kaunitz's Avatar

    Kaunitz said:

    Default Re: On Morale

    Quote Originally Posted by daniu View Post
    Hmmm... but there is also a "concerned: army losses" display which I take those to be; I'll stick with my interpretation If only because there is only one threshold but you would need two for your third loss period.

    What about "ume_concerned_army_destruction"? I know that I'm missing a threshold though. Maybe it's recent casualty threshold x "x", or maybe it's unmoddable.

    Quote Originally Posted by daniu View Post
    It's also possible that some effects have several displays; maybe "friends nearby" is equal to "flanks secure" (doubt it though).
    No, flanks secure and friends nearby are two distinct things. I guess that the whole "friends nearby"-thing is some kind of radius in which the respective unit "counts" the number of friendly and enemy units. Thus, when there are more friendly units around (or no enemy units), the unit gets a morale bonus. But that's just a guess. It goes well with my observation (made in my "project = a modded game) that exhausted and unsupported AI-cavalry units rout all of a sudden when they get close to the enemy, without any other cause than getting close to them.

    But this thread is not supposed to be a place for pedantic discussion .
    Last edited by Kaunitz; November 20, 2010 at 12:37 PM.
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  12. Obvious Spycrab's Avatar

    Obvious Spycrab said:

    Default Re: On Morale

    30 morale? Thats some real dedicated soldiers... How long did they last before they even got to wavering?
     
  13. 43rdFoot's Avatar

    43rdFoot said:

    Default Re: On Morale

    In my experience the militia units in the vanilla game have pretty cool morale, and I think it would be interesting if all normal line units had that morale. I've found that militia armies will tend to attack, break, reform, and attack again, usually going through the cycle several times. It makes for some very fun battles.
     
  14. LEGIO_Desaix's Avatar

    LEGIO_Desaix said:

    Default Re: On Morale

    Just to point out that column bonus does not seem to work at all. Decreasing or increasing its value has no effect on unit morale.
     
  15. Prince of Darkness's Avatar

    Prince of Darkness said:

    Default Re: On Morale

    Quote Originally Posted by 43rdFoot View Post
    In my experience the militia units in the vanilla game have pretty cool morale, and I think it would be interesting if all normal line units had that morale. I've found that militia armies will tend to attack, break, reform, and attack again, usually going through the cycle several times. It makes for some very fun battles.
    It is probably because militias rout too easily without permanant morale factors being inflicted. Which means that they probably will return to 'confident' even 'eager' status when they stops routing.
    Line and guard infantry, on the other hand, has the ''Morale Resistant'' trait, allowing them to stand much longer, but when they break they probably won't come back that easily.
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  16. THEMIK DK's Avatar

    THEMIK DK said:

    Default Re: On Morale

    really hepful! thanks!

    A 1500-1680 Total War FTW!!!
     
  17. Yarkis de Bodemloze's Avatar

    Yarkis de Bodemloze said:

    Default Re: On Morale

    Some additional interpretations by me.

    I think the panic effect is related to the shock threshold. My idea is that a unit panics if it sustains more then 20% casualities in a short amount of time. Shock resistant troops ignore this.

    The fear range of 50 is wrong. Actually it's more around 90 and not modable with the variable.

    The fighting cavalry moral penality only applies to units with a training level below 'well trained'.

    I don't think that general stars give a moral bonus, only specific traits and ancillaries. At least only these bonuses are shown in the unit stats.

    Unit in square formation receive a moral bonus not listed in the table.
    Last edited by Yarkis de Bodemloze; December 07, 2010 at 04:32 PM.
     
  18. Titus Maximius Thongus's Avatar

    Titus Maximius Thongus said:

    Default Re: On Morale

    @Yarkis,

    I think the morale bonus from a square is due to the unit being more compact. Units in solid blocks tend to be a little more morale resilient
     
  19. daniu's Avatar

    daniu said:

    Default Re: On Morale

    While filming my latest vid, I stumbled across something: I saw an enemy fleeing, riderless horse run into one of my units, and the "attacked from flank" debuff appeared.
    Seems to be triggered by any "enemy" contact, not only actual attacks.
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  20. Kaunitz's Avatar

    Kaunitz said:

    Default Re: On Morale

    I can confirm that you get this malus when routing units are in your rear/flank. It's just stupid. But at least there is a "enemy routing" bonus to compensate a little bit (although you cannot mod it).
    Last edited by Kaunitz; December 08, 2010 at 02:41 AM.
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