End of the United Ireland dream or is it?

[Azog 150]

If unification of all Ireland isn't possible, then those parts of NI where the Irish are a majority could separate from Protestant parts and join ROI.

Not only would it respark tensions, but I would like to point out that Unionists are also Irish. Its just that they consider themselves Irish and British, the same way people consider themselves Scottish and British, English and British or Welsh and British.

[Ardruire Iacób]

If unification of all Ireland isn't possible, then those parts of NI where the Irish are a majority could separate from Protestant parts and join ROI.

The following speak the truth.

That would seriously rile tensions amongst the loyalists and republicans yet again. We don't want bombs going off over here anymore.

Not only would it respark tensions, but I would like to point out that Unionists are also Irish. Its just that they consider themselves Irish and British, the same way people consider themselves Scottish and British, English and British or Welsh and British.

Partition has only served to increase tensions and emnities, we want to take walls down; not build more of them.

[Their Law]

Not only would it respark tensions, but I would like to point out that Unionists are also Irish. Its just that they consider themselves Irish and British, the same way people consider themselves Scottish and British, English and British or Welsh and British.

But.... but my preconceptions about the English and the Irish.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Irish threads are now, weirdly, one of the few good examples of humanity on TWC. Inevitably foreigners demand a return to slaughter and almost every Irish/British member tells them to shut the Hell up.

It's very reassuring.

[Dubh the dark]

Irish threads are now, weirdly, one of the few good examples of humanity on TWC. Inevitably foreigners demand a return to slaughter and almost every Irish/British member tells them to shut the Hell up.

It's very reassuring.

We had to mature at some stage I guess

[Ayleid]

I love the complete black and white scenarios people are laying out here, as if to say that Ireland will never re-unify due to issue (x), historical grievance (y) and national argument (z). Never is an incredibly long time. To be fair, on both sides of the divide people have an intrinsic hatred for each other, so re-unification does look daunting. But if the UK and the Republic would consider a federal approach, giving England and southern Ireland devolved assemblies, with Westminster retaining parliamentary sovereignty, changing the state religion and giving greater representation to the nationalities we could sit fairly well with a re-unified UK. But it would never work, people are indoctrinated and far too ignorant for it to actually become a possibility.

So yes, at the moment, it doesn't look like Ireland will be unified. But that isn't to say in the foreseeable future it isn't a possibility.

[Dubh the dark]

I love the complete black and white scenarios people are laying out here, as if to say that Ireland will never re-unify due to issue (x), historical grievance (y) and national argument (z). Never is an incredibly long time. To be fair, on both sides of the divide people have an intrinsic hatred for each other, so re-unification does looks daunting. But if the UK and the Republic would consider a federal approach, giving England and southern Ireland a devolved assemblies, with Westminster retaining parliamentary sovereignty, changing the state religion and giving greater representation to the nationalities we could sit fairly well with a re-unified UK. But it would never work, people are indoctrinated and far too ignorant for it to actually become a possibility.

So yes, at the moment, it doesn't look like Ireland will be unified. But that isn't to say in the foreseeable future it isn't a possibility.

Are you actually saying Ireland could be unified within the UK? Devolved assembly in the South! That would go down well..

[Ardruire Iacób]

To be fair, on both sides of the divide people have an intrinsic hatred for each other, so re-unification does looks daunting. But if the UK and the Republic would consider a federal approach, giving England and southern Ireland a devolved assemblies, with Westminster retaining parliamentary sovereignty, changing the state religion and giving greater representation to the nationalities we could sit fairly well with a re-unified UK.

We rejected that nearly a century ago, when we looked even less viable than now (Anglicanism being disestablished in Ireland in 1871 and Home Rule being not enough after 1916); why on earth would we accept it?

And what intrinsic hatred? I had no idea my primal urge was to go out and drive the Saxon foe into the sea! Given I speak neither the same English as most of the British, nor the same Irish as most Irish-speakers up North, and certainly not Ulster-Scots; I find it hard to see what I have in common with these people other than rough proximity. Why should I have to share my state with them?

[Dubh the dark]

We rejected that nearly a century ago, when we looked even less viable than now (Anglicanism being disestablished in Ireland in 1871 and Home Rule being not enough after 1916); why on earth would we accept it?

And what intrinsic hatred? I had no idea my primal urge was to go out and drive the Saxon foe into the sea!

Lol, just another sterotype

[Ardruire Iacób]

Lol, just another sterotype

I know, I can only think in "complete black and white scenarios" after all!

[The Noble Lord]

Could the solution to this be The Republic of Ireland re joining the United Kingdom?

The Irish Republic rejoining the UK, not in this life time and not in next 300 years at least!

[Their Law]

Doesn't matter really we'll both be states in the USE at some point.

[Azog 150]

Yeah, I didn't hear anything there that I particularly disagree with- especially in this day and age with an increasingly globalised world

[Ciabhán]

I know plenty of Irish speakers that don't speak English(though they're mostly from older generations). I didn't speak a word of English before primary school.

However the biggest problem I see with it is the fact that if it wasn't for the British the Irish language would be more widely used. That being the case listening to an Englishman tell people it isn't worth teaching is somewhat aggravating. Do I think tax money collected in England should be spent on it? No. Do I think the Republic should teach it? Yes. Do I think it should be taught in NI? Yes.

[Azog 150]

Wasn't he talking about Scottish Gaelic?

[Ciabhán]

Wasn't he talking about Scottish Gaelic?

Maybe. I skipped ahead to the 1 minute mark to pass the commercials so all I ever heard was references to 'gallic' as he called it. Which depending on could refer to Irish or Scots Gaelic.

I might have just assumed based on the 60,000 number he referenced as that isn't far off of the number of 'fluent' Irish speakers in NI. I have no idea how many people speak Scots Gaelic.

[Azog 150]

According to the 2001 UK Census 58,652 had some understanding of it (1.2% of the Scottish population aged over 3, and about 0.1% of the UK population as a whole)

[Ciabhán]

According to the 2001 UK Census 58,652 had some understanding of it (1.2% of the population aged over 3)

Ah well that might mean I jumped to conclusions though I still don't see it as acceptable to let it die. Scots pay taxes too and if they want some of that money to go to teaching the language it should.

Side note: I've spent some time in the deep dark back mountains of Tennessee in the States and met a few hundred people who speak an old dialect of Scots Gaelic that has been passed down through generations. A fair amount of them speak no English. I was quite surprised.

[Azog 150]

Ah well that might mean I jumped to conclusions though I still don't see it as acceptable to let it die. Scots pay taxes too and if they want some of that money to go to teaching the language it should.

Well then it should be a matter of the devolved government. Even then, there isn't much evidence that Scots see it as a valuable way to spend money any more then people in England.

Mitchell (Guy in the vid for those who don't know) said that he doesn't see the sense in spending money trying to keep alive a language that has very little value other then nationalistic sentiment. The whole point of a laungage is to communicate with others. Its not even like its a cultural tradition everyone can indulge in or appreciate (Unlike, for example, the Highland Games)- its something that only a tiny minority of the population can understand, and even then only a tiny minority of them use it as anything other then a hobby.

As Mitchell said, even if in the unfortunate instance that it does die out there is no reason for people to stop learning it. People still learn Latin which is a dead language and there is a lot less information on that. We live in the age of audio and it will never truly die. And the language would still fulfil the same role it does now bar for a tiny number of people- as a reminder of heritage

I can think of far better places for tax payers money to be spent.





That is pretty interesting about Tennessee though

[Ciabhán]

People still learn Latin which is a dead language and there is a lot less information on that. We live in the age of audio and it will never truly die.

I can think of far better places for tax payers money to be spent.

Like not teaching Latin? Government funding of Latin is rather more pointless than government funding of Scots Gaelic. At least there are people alive today who speak it outside of schololarly pursuits.