Next DLV version based on... ?

[Tokus*Maximus]

No going back to earlier versions, that is de-evolution. We wait and see what Repman wishes to do. Taiji's excellent BB is very good indeed. It may not survive having to be retro-adapted to 6.3 - Repman is just not as present as he once was offical updates.

Options are;

6.3 rolls out as Repman desires. Taiji's BB contines upon older 6.2 as parallel hybrid sub-mod. Things continue as they are with BB evolving fast.
-or-
6.4 rolls out based on latest BB build upon 6.2. Repman tweaks it to his hearts content. Then we all work from one standard base.

Either are fine - DLV will thrive anyway.

[Taiji]

When you add new features you increase the complexity of the mod. This makes DLV harder to mod. DLV being the most complex mod available when I started modding, I know that complexity of existing systems adds to the difficulty of implementing new stuff. In campaign script and EDB, and plenty more besides, I have a added a load of complex systems, and also taken groups of complex systems and combined them. Complexity is at a much higher level than previously.

The result is that pretty much everything works, even stuff that we didn't know was broken.

The other result is that someone new to scripting is going to have an even more scary time than I had when I started scripting in DLV. When I started scripting in DLV I had to look at loads of basic stuff and run a few basic scripts myself anyway, so the solution for the modder is no different - Go learn. My scripting makes plenty of sense while making complex super scripts out of many smaller scripts where necessary/possible. Plus surely it's better to work based on complicated working stuff rather than simple broken stuff, so a serious modder (willing to mod to my level) is going to find a very nice environment to enhance their learning.

The same is true in the EDB. To understand the recruitment you really need to understand the campaign_script, as well as to to understand building access. And the EDU which has changed to facilitate the multiple weaponsmiths feature, needs to be consulted to know that gunpowder is now axe on technology type, for example. The way each building produces money is affected by the campaign script, and now so is upkeep and recruit slots. And the BAI is more complex since I scripted help for it, so we need to understand the campaign script to understand the BAI now. It's more complicated for sure but at least it is making valuable connections automatically for anyone that understands it.

DLV+BB has had to become more complicated to get better in the numerous ways I've devised. It is not a bad thing, it just raises the standard of modding required to contribute. A mod which helps produce good modders, when they seriously try to contribute, does not seem like a bad thing to me.


There are many elements, many parts of the picture. And that either means loads of updates or lots of stuff stays broken. At the same time as fixing problems in DLV, vanilla, and my own work, I like to do what I actually want to do: Create something cool. So yes, even more problems are going to need fixing. You can all probably imagine that I'd much rather be fixing problems with my new work, the stuff that excites me, than cleaning up after everyone else. And imagine that I'd have loved it if Repman or some other coder/scripter would have made some effort to help me. But I did it all by myself, because I cared and had time and the ability where noone else seemed to.

Updates coming soon after bugs are fixed, or new features testable, are really good I think. Even if it means you have to keep restarting your campaign. But I can see how it can cause a problem for anyone modding based on my work, and this is regrettable. But then I do keep older versions uploaded and that can be expanded at request. I still have the version of BB compatible with 6.2, savegames up for example.

And anything that I really like, and that I think Repman, Tokus and everyone else will probably like, I include. People making mods that run counter to Repman's stated preferences, like those that remove the aztecs, have very little chance of being taken on because I appreciate the value (for the audience) of the Repman stamp of approval that comes with official inclusion. There are people waiting for the next DLV version that wouldn't dare add a mod to a mod. The thought that those people will not get to see what I think is the best mod in the community as a result of Repman failing to include my 1000s of hours of excellent work is a sad thought.

Despite all that I really think that, on balance, my work is helping DLV keep it's buzz and not causing the development community to stagnate as has been suggested by 1 person. But then it always has been an excellent mod even while it richly deserved it's reputation of being the most buggy. Anyone new to m2tw would love DLV for many reasons even without my work. I know that I did, and still do. But I think my work is already bringing a load of the old crowd of veterans back to sample new DLV-worthy delights. And safe in the knowledge that some stupid bug won't ruin their campaign, as they used to expect with DLV.

In fact I was playing a multiplayer mod for mount and blade recently and someone recommended DLV+BB to someone else in chat! I was so suprised and proud

Oh yes and 880 BB downloads from 1 of the 2 mirrors in the last 6 weeks! This shows a surge in popularity and hopefully it will result in even more people actually trying to help.

Also I think DLV cannot actually 'die', it is an excellent mod. It remains an excellent mod to play until noone plays m2tw mods. To my mind 'dying' is only really naturally possible for an unreleased mod. Rumors of it's demise are not just exaggerations, they're outright stupid!

So there. Hopefully that's the real 'Taiji's side' and understandable to all.


I notice this mod http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=399699

Kaiser has done work for BB before, and done a good job of it. I haven't had time to check his work in this instance but I think this mod should probably be in the next version of DLV, assuming BB is used.

[moimeme]

Also I think DLV cannot actually 'die', it is an excellent mod. It remains an excellent mod to play until noone plays m2tw mods. To my mind 'dying' is only really naturally possible for an unreleased mod. Rumors of it's demise are not just exaggerations, they're outright stupid!

I agree with you 100% about that definition, although, I understand when some are using the term'' dying'' to demonstrate that the attention of a particular project as changed by the time compared to others similar projects. Example: The first time I heard to DLV, it was shows as one of the most complete and realistic mod available, by the time, it was the equal of SS to me, even more professional( SS to me was like a more arcade mod) I even buy a retail copy of medieval 2 kingdoms to play it because at that time I had it with steam(who hasn't patch it to 1.05 yet) So, my point is that it looks that the activities of DLV have drop by the time compared to some mod. I know it not just just about competition and I don't know everything about moding and don't contribuate in any way so I have nothing to ask. Still, it might looks like a regression for some people(like me). It is simply my impression, DLV seems less active in the community. Apart of that, congratulation for the one/those that made the Norwegian units, very impressive, I love it !

[lafeeverted]

(who hasn't patch it to 1.05 yet)

steam is fully patched. Not sure if you meant it was not patched before, so you had to buy the game, or now it isn't patched.,

[moimeme]

Okay, that's nice, I buy the retail in october 2008, at that time it wasn't patched. The patch came out in april I think, so it was still half a year after and nothing. Anyway problem solved

[Tokus*Maximus]

steam is fully patched. Not sure if you meant it was not patched before, so you had to buy the game, or now it isn't patched.,

Every time I see a PC DVD of M2TW Kingdoms GOLD around town I snap it up. Then it only requires patching up to 1.5

I live in fear of Steam (which I call 'Scream'). At least with the DVD installed version you know where you are.