Friendly fire

[temu]

When archers/javelinmen fire into a melee engagement do they kill your own men as well as the enemy?

I often put archers behind my front line and continue firing when the infantry engage, however i cant tell whether the men dieing are from my archers or the enemy

[Tomato_Sandwich]

Oh yes, they do! especially if your firing over your men because the hit them in the back where they are less protected. I think it shows you on the summary after the battle how many casualties were friendly fire. the one in the brackets.

[Meneth]

Yup. Friendly fire is on for ranged attacks.
So when firing from behind your own lines, use an unit with arching fire and/or fire from an elevated position.
@Tomato_Sandwich, that in brackets is the number of prisoners captured. Friendly fire casualties aren't listed, but can be calculated: MenLost-EnemyKills-MenHealed=FriendlyFire

[k/t]

No, the number in brackets in the Casualties Sustained column are the ones your brilliant missile morons killed. Prisoners lost and taken have their own columns.

[Tomato_Sandwich]

There are two bracketed numbers aren't there? The one next to the casualties sustained is the friendly fire one right?

[Meneth]

No, the number in brackets in the Casualties Sustained column are the ones your brilliant missile morons killed. Prisoners lost and taken have their own columns.

Here's a nice, illustrated guide to what the numbers mean.

[hellexpress]

set a gap between 2 tanking melee units and let ur archers/xbowmen/seige engines shoot through the gap
i did a lot very short range xbomen/ballista shooting through this gap,
by this very so-close range, ur ballista seldom make friendly fire and killed like 6 to 8 men each flamed bolt and enemy route really quite once engaged with the help with archers/xbowmen, normally routed not more than 20secs after engaged at VH/VH without general

and set silchon(that defend in a circle) is very good to prevent ur tanking group getting backstab from friendly fire

and another point, 2 ballista units lined up at the choke point can be much slower enemy passing through.

[Hannibalus]

I would like if friendly fire rate would be increased by low level units but in the same time their missile attack would be increased.
For example peasant archers would be more useful with 2 missile attack if used correctly on wall or on the flank or behind but used against an enemy mixed with own troops or behind spearman should cause more causalities. Of course other low level archer types or medium level archers should be adapted.
Professional or elite archers, especially skirmisher should have much higher precision beside of the higher attack.
Every strong peasant which could use a bow could cause much higher lethality than in the actual game if shut from closed distance in a mass of spearman. The difference could not be 5:1 in such circumstances to a professional archer. The difference to a professional archer unit should be mostly in the lethality if the enemy is at greater distance, if the enemy is heavy armored and a much higher precision by professional and elite units so less casualties by professional and no casualties with friendly fire by elite units if the troops are mixed.
The difference could be also more differentiated as actually between peasant, professional and elite archers and not reduced almost only to a different missile attack value. Professionals had more range or professional archers with the same range as peasant archers had a higher fire rate and more arrows.
Professional archers had also armor piercing arrows and used against armored opponents and we can be sure that especially elite archers always used the proper arrow so all elite archers in the game and most of the professionals can be with armor pierced range attack.

[Meneth]

There is no "friendly fire rate"
It's physics and accuracy based. If your unit misses the enemy, it might hit your own troops. If your own troops are in the way, they'll be hit.
Low-level troops have lower accuracy, so they're less likely to hit the enemy, and more likely to hit friendlies.

[Hannibalus]

There is no "friendly fire rate"
It's physics and accuracy based. If your unit misses the enemy, it might hit your own troops. If your own troops are in the way, they'll be hit.

Of course there it is. We can speak about a friendly fire rate if we don't have a 100% precision. Of course it is not a directly represented value in a configuration file but a direct visual and statistical effect of the less accuracy.

Low-level troops have lower accuracy, so they're less likely to hit the enemy, and more likely to hit friendlies.

That's clear, but the difference is too insignificant actually compared to the range attack rapport between high and low level archers.

[Tomato_Sandwich]

I meant in the section with the individual unit's details

Attachment 119798

[FastHeinz]

I meant in the section with the individual unit's details

Attachment 119798

I approve the above message.

[FastHeinz]

Of course there it is. We can speak about a friendly fire rate if we don't have a 100% precision. Of course it is not a directly represented value in a configuration file but a direct visual and statistical effect of the less accuracy.

That's clear, but the difference is too insignificant actually compared to the range attack rapport between high and low level archers.

On-target arrow hits = the number of arrows hitting enemy units (one or multiple)
Off-target arrow hits = hitting anything except any enemy units

The probability of Total arrow fired: P[Total arrow fired] = 1

P[Total arrow fired] = P[Total on-target arrow hits] + P[Total off-target arrow hits]

P[Total off-target arrow hits] = P[Off-target arrows that hit anything else other then friendly units] + P[Arrows that hit friendly units]

Where P[Total on-target arrow hits] is what we call accuracy rate, and
P[Arrows that hit friendly units] is what we call friendly fire rate

From what I gather from the posts, it appears that while accuracy can be controlled, Total off-target arrow hits cannot be easily controlled to calculate friendly fire.

Though I believe the friendly fire rate can be approximated and ultimately obtained in the form of a probability funtion with limited bound. Right now we know the friendly fire rate has to be between zero and P[Total off-target arrow hits] or 1 - accuracy rate. We can obtain such friendly fire rates empirically by collecting statistical data all possible combinations of every range unit fired from all elevations, all possible angles, distance and weather conditions to all kinds of units with all armor.

To obtain greater accuracy, simply do more iterations of the above tests. This is time consuming though. But rest assured, friendly fire rate can be obtained.

[Meneth]

Hmm... seems that is friendly fire. Never paid much attention to that number.
What I found while testing: it seems to be almost impossible to force my siphonatores to shoot through my own soldiers -_-
I only got 2 friendly fire incidents, and they disobeyed direct orders to shoot at the enemies on the other side of my infantry -_-

[Tomato_Sandwich]

What I found while testing: it seems to be almost impossible to force my siphonatores to shoot through my own soldiers -_-

That is a very annoying thing. could it be because they are like guns and crossbows and aren't allowed to ark so don't try? wont muskets also not do anything if you ask them to shoot through your men?

[Meneth]

There's nothing disallowing most projectiles from arching, actually. They just can't due to high velocity. The lower the velocity of a projectile is, the more it has to arch to make up for gravity.
Crossbows, siphonatores, and guns won't arch as their velocity is too high.
So gunners will likely also not do anything if you try to make them shoot through your own men.

[Tomato_Sandwich]

There's nothing disallowing most projectiles from arching, actually. They just can't due to high velocity. The lower the velocity of a projectile is, the more it has to arch to make up for gravity.
Crossbows, siphonatores, and guns won't arch as their velocity is too high.
So gunners will likely also not do anything if you try to make them shoot through your own men.

Oh. Well then.

[k/t]

Uh oh, Meneth was wrong... You're slipping, old man!

It's a good thing that with Siphonatores there is no friendly...fire...

[Meneth]

Uh oh, Meneth was wrong... You're slipping, old man!

I wasn't wrong, I just thought you were talking about a different number

It's a good thing that with Siphonatores there is no friendly...fire...

"Friendly fire isn't"

[k/t]

Remember, only YOU can prevent friendly fires!