Faction Wide Traits Suggestions

[Meneth]

Currently, there's only a few faction wide traits in-game.
More would be great, and would also help counter-act the common "all my kings are getting 'the Wise'" situation.
So here you can suggest and discuss new faction wide traits.
I will implement the best ideas, and they will become part of the Fixes and MSC.

Things to include in your suggestion:

• Trait name
• Trait title
• What would trigger it
• Effects
• Trait description

Disclaimer: many ideas will probably be shot down due to not being implementable
Traits scripted so far:

• Beyond Paranoid (Tears of Destiny)
• Al-Mansur and Nur al-Din (RollingWave)
• Legendary Fighter (Commodore DarthD)

[Tears of Destiny]

Beyond Paranoid
The Insane/The Vigilant
Surviving an assassination attempt
+20% to all faction security
Having survived numerous assassination attempts has caused this ruler to double the watches in all the realm.

[SirRobin]

I suggest all the king's traits should have faction wide effect. Or maybe that would be too powerful/crippling?

In that case perhaps dividing the effects by 4 or 5 would be the way to do it ?

[Meneth]

Beyond Paranoid
The Insane/The Vigilant
Surviving an assassination attempt
+20% to all faction security
Having survived numerous assassination attempts has caused this ruler to double the watches in all the realm.

Good idea, that. Definitely implementable.
Hmm... I'll definitely have to either reduce the chance of the Wise, or make it possible to have more than one faction wide trait, because if not, a ruler would almost never get traits like that.

I suggest all the king's traits should have faction wide effect. Or maybe that would be too powerful/crippling?

In that case perhaps dividing the effects by 4 or 5 would be the way to do it ?

No, as then every trait would need a 'shadow' trait for regular generals, and another trigger. Meaning huge amounts of scripting and editing would be needed, plus turn times would be slowed down quite a bit.

[Meneth]

Added a poll on how many faction-wide traits a king should be able to have.

[Ichon]

Is it possible to have trade-off traits? So if good administrator or friendly to merchants were a trait with positive income bonus it could also make recruiting units more expensive or lower replenish rates or increase rebel risk? IE- that general is friendly with merchant class over other classes sort of thing? Or similar with recruiting- a trait that lower recruitment cost and speed replenishment up slightly but lowers income?

[Meneth]

Is it possible to have trade-off traits? So if good administrator or friendly to merchants were a trait with positive income bonus it could also make recruiting units more expensive or lower replenish rates or increase rebel risk? IE- that general is friendly with merchant class over other classes sort of thing? Or similar with recruiting- a trait that lower recruitment cost and speed replenishment up slightly but lowers income?

AFAIK, it's not possible to easily change the recruitment cost, nor replenish rate. To do that, one would need a large amount of scripting.

It is quite possible to have both good and bad sides to a trait, though.

[Ichon]

AFAIK, it's not possible to easily change the recruitment cost, nor replenish rate. To do that, one would need a large amount of scripting.

It is quite possible to have both good and bad sides to a trait, though.

What makes the difference whether it is easy or hard to mod a trait? Maybe a short list of easy to mod traits...

Because I know there are individual traits that let FM recruit agents or units more cheaply. Replenishment would probably be difficult but what about building times and costs? All I know to go off of is what traits already exist. Not sure how to tell which is more difficult to mod faction wide or what ways you can add 1 trait that is faction wide and won't cancel out other traits.

IE- if you make a faction wide +2 chivalry does that +2 go onto other FM who already have exact same trait to give them +4 or do they stay at +2? Or 5 faction wide traits making alot of the other FM traits canceled out. So if 2 faction wide traits give +chivalry but half your generals are dread are we including these traits for RP or to make some historical effects or what?

[Medkirtys]

Do we have +Dread -Piety faction wide trait? I've only seen +chiv +piety one

[Meneth]

The closest would be greedy ruler, which gives the king +2 dread, -2 chiv, +2 authority, -3 popularity, +35 tax. It gives all other generals -2 popularity, +30 tax, and +1 dread.

[Fair Prince]

A quick question: how do you implement faction wide traits?

[Meneth]

A quick question: how do you implement faction wide traits?

Depends on the function.
If it's something that affects all generals, it's pretty simple and something like this works fine:

Trait ParanoidRuler
 Characters family
 NoGoingBackLevel 1

 Level Paranoid_Ruler
   Description Paranoid_Ruler_desc
   EffectsDescription Paranoid_Ruler_effects_desc
   GainMessage Paranoid_Ruler_desc
   Epithet Paranoid_Ruler_epithet_desc
   Threshold 1

   Effect PersonalSecurity 3

Trait ParanoidRulerGeneral
 Characters family

 Level Paranoid_Ruler_General
   Description Paranoid_Ruler_General_desc
   EffectsDescription Paranoid_Ruler_General_effects_desc
   Threshold 1

   Effect PersonalSecurity 2

Trigger ParanoidRuler
WhenToTest SufferAssassinationAttempt
 
Condition IsFactionLeader
    and RandomPercent < 35
    and Trait WideTraitSet = 0

Affects ParanoidRuler 1 Chance 100
Affects WideTraitSet 1 Chance 100

;------------------------------------------
Trigger ParanoidRulerGeneral_add
 WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

 Condition FactionLeaderTrait ParanoidRuler = 1
       and Trait ParanoidRulerGeneral = 0
       and not IsFactionLeader
       and IsGeneral

 Affects ParanoidRulerGeneral 1 Chance 100

;------------------------------------------
Trigger ParanoidRulerGeneral_remove
 WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

 Condition Trait ParanoidRulerGeneral = 1
       and FactionLeaderTrait ParanoidRuler = 0

 Affects ParanoidRulerGeneral -1 Chance 100

It's more complicated if you want something that affects the EDB, though.
Then you have to add some conditions in the EDB, then script the counters through the campaign script, like this:

monitor_event CharacterTurnStart IsFactionLeader
    and Trait WiseAdministrator > 0
    set_event_counter wise_administrator 1
end_monitor

[Fair Prince]

I see now, so basically every general in the family gets a 'minor' trait if the FL has the 'major' one - that's good as it is but I'm curious, can we have faction wide traits that affect settlements without governors? (e.g. for law bonus or unrest penalty)

[Meneth]

Yes, with EDB editing and CS scripting.
Just script a counter based on the FL having that trait, and for the effects you want, put that as the condition in the EDB.
Example:
construction_cost_bonus_stone bonus 20 requires event_counter wise_administrator 1

[Fair Prince]

Yes, with EDB editing and CS scripting.
Just script a counter based on the FL having that trait, and for the effects you want, put that as the condition in the EDB.
Example:
construction_cost_bonus_stone bonus 20 requires event_counter wise_administrator 1

Okay, thanks.
This doesn't look too difficult, but I assume scripts like these come with an unevitable rise in turn times, therefore their inclusion is not always justified.

[Meneth]

True, they increase the turn time somewhat, but the effect is miniscule.
Only if one added a lot of faction-wide traits would one likely get any noticeable difference.
BTW, slight update on traits affecting the EDB.
They have to be scripted somewhat like this:

monitor_event CharacterTurnStart IsFactionLeader
    and Trait WiseAdministrator > 0
    and FactionIsLocal
    set_event_counter wise_administrator 1
end_monitor

monitor_event CharacterTurnStart IsFactionLeader
    and Trait WiseAdministrator = 0
    and FactionIsLocal
    set_event_counter wise_administrator 0
end_monitor

The buffs don't make much difference to the AI, so it getting applied to them too doesn't matter much. I can't think of a way to make it not apply to the AI without it not properly applying to the player.
Edit2: it's possible to reset the counter at the start of every turn, which would make it work properly for both the AI and the player if the "FactionIsLocal" conditions are removed. Also, the second part of the script is no longer needed then.

[Fair Prince]

Well, it's okay for me then, though I'd like to ask you to please be careful with the turn times if you decide to go ahead, as after all the work put into reducing them it would be a big mistake to ruin the result.

[Meneth]

Ofc. I'll make sure not to go completely overboard. But to make up for the optimizations, I'd probably have to add at least a hundred faction-wide traits

Anyway, I've decided to either go with 3 or 5 faction-wide traits max per king. Any more and it gets too powerful. Any less and you're screwed if you get one you didn't want.
If I go with 3 or 5 will depend on the votes, and the number of 'weak' traits implemented. The more 'weak' traits are implemented, the higher the limit can be, as it'll take more for it to get too powerful.
Edit: also fixed "the Wise" being bugged. It currently applies even if your king doesn't have the trait. Once I release the next version of the Fixes (probably tomorrow), it'll only get applied if your king has the trait.

[Merula]

Ofc. I'll make sure not to go completely overboard. But to make up for the optimizations, I'd probably have to add at least a hundred faction-wide traits

Anyway, I've decided to either go with 3 or 5 faction-wide traits max per king. Any more and it gets too powerful. Any less and you're screwed if you get one you didn't want.
If I go with 3 or 5 will depend on the votes, and the number of 'weak' traits implemented. The more 'weak' traits are implemented, the higher the limit can be, as it'll take more for it to get too powerful.
Edit: also fixed "the Wise" being bugged. It currently applies even if your king doesn't have the trait. Once I release the next version of the Fixes (probably tomorrow), it'll only get applied if your king has the trait.

Save game compatible??
Sounds good though!

[bɑne]

Save game compatible??
Sounds good though!

Adding should be, removing shouldn't.