Suggestion for crusader states

[Polycarpe]

Hi there, I was wondering what do people wish of a balanced, historic and fun roster for the CS.
I will try to change it myself by the suggestion of the people. Removing, adding, modifying, etc. Said it and I'll manage to do that. Also, I don't have time for research in history, I have enough with biology so history courses will be appreciated, I know how to play with the EDB, EDU, battlemodel but I don't know how to change weapons for a skin.


Here is my suggestion for the CS
The Dome of Rock would work pretty much like the Templar knight order except since is the real HQ of the Templar, I’ll include the marshall (also, any catholic faction who controls the Dome of Rock will be granted to recruit these troops but with even fewer availability):
-Templar knight (low availability)
-Dismounted knight Templar (low availability)
-Templar confrere knight ( moderate availability)
-Dismounted Templar confrere knight (I’ll use the Templar heavy spearmen, moderate availability)
-Marshall of the knight Templar (very low availability)
-Removing the Templar zweihander, spearmen, guard(or naming them with something else) and longbowmen (French and Templar)
-Recruitable pilgrim instead of peasant (and maybe adding the fanatic as well)
-Use pavise crossbowmen and be called latin crossbowmen (or genoese crossbowmen
-Turkopole recruitable
-made a dismounted turkopole
-Use western troops such the spearmen sergeant and swordsmen sergeant (or light men-at-arm)
-The CS would have the Teutonic order at the Teutonic event
What I want to know, is where and what specific building for the hospitalier HQ, the templar have the Dome of rock but what the hospitalier have? here what I'll introduce for the hospitalier:
-marshall of the hospitalier (very low availability)
-hospitalier knight (low availability)
-dismounted hospitalier knight (low availability)
-hospitalier confrere knight ( better melee, less charge atk)
-dismounted confrere knight (suggestion for it)

-Suggestion for the Knight of Jerusalem, as feudal or professional troops, related (stick) or not to Jerusalem, changing the weapon of the dismounted knight (I’ve seen an halberd knight of Jerusalem for the KOH I think)
-Same debate for the St. Lazarus Knight
-Don't know what to do with the marinea, edessan guard, syrian auxillaries
-I’ll check the BC roster for their CS to see if we can borrow something (with their permission of course)
This is what I suggest and what I saw that I agreed with people suggestions
Please free to go to share Suggestion

[ShadowKiller2000]

For a lot of the units, such as dismounted St. Lazarus Knights, Edessen Guards, Templar Zweihander, Templar Guard you can do name changes, and change the skins.

You could call them European knights/ and nobles etc.

Keep the same type of roster, while giving it a more historical feeling.

I love the idea off adding in the TO.

Maybe not have all the Templar units be recruited in only one area. It is not 100% historic, and would be very hard for the CS to expand at all (especially the AI)

I like the unit ideas, but please just add them into buildings to be recruited.

Having one or two unique unit(s) available in Jerusalem is plenty.

I am just speaking for myself here but I love the CS. If most of my best units were only available in one spot it would ruin the fun of playing.

If you try to expand and all your best units can only be retrained in one spot......I would go insane.

I do like the idea about changing the roster, keep up the good work!

[Polycarpe]

Thank you for your suggestion

Don't worry Shadowkiller, I forgot to explained it better, you could recruit any templar/hospitalier in any city/castle if you build the building. No, Centralized place will be too restriction and less fun. But maybe the HQ of the templar will be in Jerusalem and HQ order building could not be build (of course, the minor and major chapter will be still there )

Maybe, the HQ of the hospitalier will be at Antioch. I've read a little, and the stronghold of the hospitalier was at the principality of Antioch in Krak-de-chevalier and Margat. Or the first hospital of the Order was near the church of holy sepulchure, so in either case, the unique elite troop will be the marshall of the hospitalier.

For a lot of the units, such as dismounted St. Lazarus Knights, Edessen Guards, Templar Zweihander, Templar Guard you can do name changes, and change the skins.

You could call them European knights/ and nobles etc.

Keep the same type of roster, while giving it a more historical feeling.

I love the idea off adding in the TO.

Maybe not have all the Templar units be recruited in only one area. It is not 100% historic, and would be very hard for the CS to expand at all (especially the AI)

I like the unit ideas, but please just add them into buildings to be recruited.

Having one or two unique unit(s) available in Jerusalem is plenty.

I am just speaking for myself here but I love the CS. If most of my best units were only available in one spot it would ruin the fun of playing.

If you try to expand and all your best units can only be retrained in one spot......I would go insane.

I do like the idea about changing the roster, keep up the good work!

[ShadowKiller2000]

Cool. Sounds good to me!

Keep up the good work, and ideas!

[WelshDragon]

Sounds like a good summary of some issues we've discussed on the boards for the last week or so. I like the ideas, especially the crusader kknight orders for flavor and the crossbowmen for realism

[Polycarpe]

Thank you everyone but I was thinking about this:
I will make a certain distinction between the templar and hospitalier
Templar: more offense-based, knight with a powerful charge, good attack but, being a little reckless, less defense.
Hospitalier: more defense-based, knight will have a better hand-to-hand cavalry advantage and a better defense but will a less powerful charge.
Teutonic: The ritterbrudder and their dismounted version are the recruitable units just like the HRE or unless some other suggestion.
Knight of Jerusalem: What I think will be a professional troops recruited in Jerusalem, Like Constantinople, they are recruitable only at this city. A halberd fighting style look very interesting but they will be only used in late era (around 1250 I believe). Or they will fight with a shield and sword. Suggestion please, I'm still misconfused.

Edessan guard: a urban professional that will be general for the CS but with another name but.... what name?

[ShadowKiller2000]

How about the Christian Guard? And remove that unit from the Moors/ change name? Or would that tick people off?

Maybe Christian City Guard or something similar?

Lords Ritinue? Since that unit was removed with the Irish?

[Polycarpe]

Sounds good SK, I'll try to change that into....State's retinue, how about that (a mixing of your're suggestion).

Tomorrow, I will say other suggestion that might be interesting. Have a good day everyone

[teks]

awesome awesome. yes you get +1

Should they get turkopoles? I question it, but I don't know anything about turkopoles.

the longbowmen were my biggest grudge. that made no sense at all.

Make a couple Armenian units for the crusaders. They could be the lower end units.

[Continental Marine]

I know alot about History and tis why I play total war ALOT!!!
Stainless Steel 6.1 was more historically accurate in the Holy Lands area. I love the new way 6.3 plays and works and regiments have banner holders, but 6.1 had the templar knights and the kingdom of jerusalem seprate witch is how it was during the late campaighn during the first crusade it was just knights templar then when french crusaders captured Jerusalem the becam the kingdom of Jerusalem, but everything else is in 6.3 is jsut about perfect. Also the knights templar and kingdom of jerusalem had there own banners differ then the papel states they should have nothing but crosses. (Knights Templar with Red Crosses and jerusalem with gold crosses)

[Tears of Destiny]

I know alot about History and tis why I play total war ALOT!!!
Stainless Steel 6.1 was more historically accurate in the Holy Lands area. I love the new way 6.3 plays and works and regiments have banner holders, but 6.1 had the templar knights and the kingdom of jerusalem seprate witch is how it was during the late campaighn during the first crusade it was just knights templar then when french crusaders captured Jerusalem the becam the kingdom of Jerusalem, but everything else is in 6.3 is jsut about perfect. Also the knights templar and kingdom of jerusalem had there own banners differ then the papel states they should have nothing but crosses. (Knights Templar with Red Crosses and jerusalem with gold crosses)

They had to be merged to free up a faction slot.

[DennisRoos]

I don't really know much about modding and game balancing, but wouldn't the CS have little units universally available if they need to build Templar/Hospitaller/Teutonic chapter houses to recruit those order units and knights of Jerusalem can be recruited only in Jerusalem?
They should at least get more requests to build chapter houses, or they could have the chapter houses in their regular build tree, like barracks. Or they should be able to recruit some other good units from castles without chapter houses.
Maybe you meant this in a different way and I just understood this incorrectly, but I don't think being able to recruit good units only from places with order houses is a good idea.

[Polycarpe]

All right everyone, I've done the roster, here the list:

The strength of the CS will be possessing many powerful Christian companies but they will be most mercenary and as a result be costly. To possess a powerful army with this faction, you better have a good budget or it will run out your money quickly. To counterbalance everything, the orders and there to give a support both monetary and military but with a few availability.

-CS can now build teutonic chapter house.

-The Dome of Rock is the HQ of the Templar, can recruit these units:
-Knight Templar, Dismounted Knight Templar
-Templar confrere knight
-Dismounted Templar Confrere Knight (I use the Templar heavy spearmen)

Hospitalier Chapter house
-Hospitalier Knight, dismounted Hospitalier knight
-St. Lazarus Knight, dismounted St. Lazarus Knight

-Templar zweihander, Templar longbowmen, templar sergeant, Templar guard, french archer removed
-Units added:
-genoese crossbowmen (recruitable in marksman range, also, I increase the atk power and the range to distinguish the superiority of these xbow)
-Turkopoles (recruitable in knight stable and higher)
-armenian of Cilicia (recruitable in marksman range)
-pilgrims recruitables
-sergeant spearmen recruitable
-Crusader knights (recruitable in baron stable and higher, few availability)
-Dismounted crusader knight (recruitable in barrack, few availability)
-Templar squire are renamed Crusader squires
-Removed Knight of Jerusalem (mounted ones)
-Removed Edessan Guard
-Rename Dismounted KoJ to KoJ and are now elite urban professional spearmen (I've take BC KoJ)

My future Projects
-I would like to make general's bodyguard recruitable, sounds good I can include that when I'll release my mini-mod

As a bonus, My release will include some tweaks on other faction, particulary the Roman Empire:
-Varangian guards are recruitable in the imperial barrack, with an increase stats but a very few availability
-Scholarii, Siphanatore and dismounted athanatoi (didn't remember their name) are recruitable from the beginning, but to balance everything, I make them a replenish rate very low but after the event of which they were supposed to be recruited, they will be more available.
-Archontopoulai are now Late Professional troops recruitable in Earl/King stable. I use BC skin for them.
-Menaulatoi are Now late professional troops recruitable in Barrack/armoury after the heavy mail event
-I introduce a new unit: the Inglinoi, mercenary longbowmen fighting for the Empire
-I raised the atk and the ammo for the longbow units
-I remove huscarl cavalry and I add huscarl axemen as feudal units
-Highlander rabble have an increased attack

And Lastly, I'll try to remove several unit slots for your own modding enjoyment

Comments, Suggestions, Insults, Please make a response and I'll release it soon.

EDIT: well, I think templar zweihander, edessan guard and templar guard would be changed.
-Crusader zweihander (german origin crusader, crusader knight skin)
-Crusader Axemen (englo-saxon, scandinavian origin crusader, crusader knight skin)
-Templar guard recruitable in the Dome of Rock (I will use the upgraded armor skin of the Knight templar fighting with a guiserne)

[ShadowKiller2000]

Errrrrr.

You removed Templar Guard, Templar Zweihanders and the Edessen Guard.......

Are they going to be replaced by any 2 handed units or renamed?

[Polycarpe]

Errrrrr.

You removed Templar Guard, Templar Zweihanders and the Edessen Guard.......

Are they going to be replaced by any 2 handed units or renamed?

Hmmm Don't worry my friend I didn't finish the final product, What I could do is to use the model of the crusader knight and make them to fight with two-handed sword. Unfortunately, I don't know how to do that, to give another weapon to a unit skin .

Templar Guard could be reintegrated in the Dome of Rock....hmmm Yes, not a bad idea

Edessan guard, I'm still thinking about it but maybe using the crusader knight skin and giving them two-handed axe.

[ShadowKiller2000]

Ok, whew....was worried for a minute.

As long as a similar unit is in the roster, I do not care what it is called....but without those the CS would be hard pressed in the late period.

Please do not keep all the units central to Jerusalem.........from personal experience it is no fun to have too many units recruitable from only 1 location.

IMHO the Templar units should be recruitable everywhere save for 1 or 2 unique units only. Otherwise you will never be able to use those good units far away from your capitol.

The CS are already in a tough spot with the low replacement rates of your troops. They rock in battle, but take forever to fill up recruiting pools.

So please, please, please only have 1 or 2 units total recruited from the Dome. I think others would agree with that.

Keep up the good work!

[Polycarpe]

Ok, whew....was worried for a minute.

As long as a similar unit is in the roster, I do not care what it is called....but without those the CS would be hard pressed in the late period.

Please do not keep all the units central to Jerusalem.........from personal experience it is no fun to have too many units recruitable from only 1 location.

IMHO the Templar units should be recruitable everywhere save for 1 or 2 unique units only. Otherwise you will never be able to use those good units far away from your capitol.

The CS are already in a tough spot with the low replacement rates of your troops. They rock in battle, but take forever to fill up recruiting pools.

So please, please, please only have 1 or 2 units total recruited from the Dome. I think others would agree with that.

Keep up the good work!

Geez I forgot to explain with better description again The only unit unique will be the templar guard that would be recruitable in the Dome of Rock. The Knight templars, the templar confrere knights and their dismounted version will be recruitable also in any Templar chapter house the CS possesses. I did the HQ of the Templar at the Dome but you can recruit any templar troops (except the guard) troughtout the Templar chapters.

Also, the Crusader troops (knight, axemen, zweihander, squire) will be recruitable in castle but I'll made them mercenary troops so high cost, few availability but very powerful.

[ShadowKiller2000]

Sweeet I like the sound of those changes!!!!

So the Crusader and Templar units that will become mercenary units will be like the Varangian Guard, and Alammanoi. Nice!

I like it balanced (higher cost and upkeep), and also more historical then before.

Forgive me for having doubts before.

[Polycarpe]

Sweeet I like the sound of those changes!!!!

So the Crusader and Templar units that will become mercenary units will be like the Varangian Guard, and Alammanoi. Nice!

I like it balanced (higher cost and upkeep), and also more historical then before.

Forgive me for having doubts before.

Don't worry friend, I'm the one who did mistake. Thank you for the comment I didn't really test it yet but my last problem is how to merge other weapon with a unit skin. I don't know what programs needed but If someone know, give me a rep, I'll appreciate

[Caesar Clivus]

Don't worry friend, I'm the one who did mistake. Thank you for the comment I didn't really test it yet but my last problem is how to merge other weapon with a unit skin. I don't know what programs needed but If someone know, give me a rep, I'll appreciate

Check the Mod Workshop forums for tutorials on how to do that. It's not too difficult