English Archers use of stakes, historically correct?

[lafeeverted]

I am reading Juliet Barker's book "Agincourt". She states that HenryV ordered his archers to arm themselves with 6 ft long wooden stakes after he had seen the heavily armored French cavalry tracking his army. She then says that although the use of stakes, more accurately pikes was a common infantry tactic beginning in the early 14th century, the use of stakes to protect archers was a recent development and an Eastern one at that. In 1396, a Turkish army used this tactic against French and Burgundian Crusaders at the Battle of Nicopolis with devastating results.

So here we are in 1415 and this is the first time English Archers are protecting themselves with stakes? If this is correct then should the English Archers, and other European factions not have this ability until this time period?

[Overlord.ru]

A point to discuss. Personally, I think that only yeoman and retinue longbowmen could use them.

On the other hand, since the whole Medieval TW is based on " what if..." principe, just imagine - what if someone else managed to develop such a tactic earlier?

[XIIICaesar]

Look up detailed accounts of the Battle of Agincourt. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Agincourt In a special on the History Channel about this battle in particular it details what happened. King Henry V army was mostly made up of Longbow archers. The French were mostly foot nobles and mounted knights. The field they fought on was very muddy and the horses were stopped in their tracks and the archers slaughtered them. King Henry V had ordered every troop to the archers to fight to the end and take no prisoner. It was customary to ransom and capture all nobles for the money but no quarters were to be given. His archers were ordered to plant stakes to protect them from French heavy cavalry and men-at-arms. During the fight archers would 2 against one take down knights using daggers and their heavy mallets. The French were taken off-guard by this because they followed the code of chivalry rigidly. The English King diod not stick to the code ion this battle. He himself fought in the combat on foot side by side his own troops with his battle crown on. He fought evry man against an impossible match up against the far superior French force.

[LaMuerte]

Was it at Agincourt the English deployed their archers + stakes , only to have them redeploy somewhere else , so the archers hat to pull out their stakes and put them back in the ground at their new location. Being very lucky , as the enemy cavalry wasn't interested in an engagement on that moment. (or was it one of the smaller battles in the 100 years war?)

'Agincourt' is a very nice book to read by Juliet Baker. She's written a new one : 'Conquest' about the reconquista by the French of their lost kingdom.

[lafeeverted]

@LaMuerte - yes it is a nice book. I will look for a copy of Conquest. Not sure about the Agincourt battle and archers moving stakes. I have just reached the point in the book where the armies have reached the field of battle and are about to begin combat.

I guess in game this can simply be modelled by having archers deploy stakes( some one had to do it) but then moving the unit away from them so they do not benefit from the defense until the 15th century is reached.

[lafeeverted]

Seems that Conquest: The English Kingdom in France, is a difficult book to come by in the U.S. Barnes and Noble doesn't list it and Amazon wants $75-$110 for a new copy.

[LaMuerte]

Seems that Conquest: The English Kingdom in France, is a difficult book to come by in the U.S. Barnes and Noble doesn't list it and Amazon wants $75-$110 for a new copy.

That's pure theft. I think I paid about 10-15€ for it. For 75-110 dollars , I'd at least expect an authentic English longbow , or a longsword , to come with the book. How about trying to order it with the publisher ? Should be a lot cheaper.

[lafeeverted]

I did some more searching and thru alibris.com it can be had for a much more reasonable price. Used copies are cheap on most sites. Wonder why it is not carried by some mainstream booksellers? I will order a copy today.

It was at Agincourt that the archers had to remove their stakes and replant them. Both armies were in a stand-off at the beginning of battle waiting for someone to make the first move. Henry V finally decides to do it realizing that the overwhelming numbers of the french army and the condition of his troops will only work against him the longer he waits. The archers have to remove the stakes, which puts them into a comprimised position vulnerable to attack as their backs are turned to remove the stakes. The French never attack and let the army reposition themselves, replant stakes and again never attack!