Is diplomacy rigged against human players?

[Leto Atreides]

No matter how nice I am to other factions. I always end up with a "very untrustworthy" label. I never break alliances, I don't exterminate populace or execute prisoners. I don't use spies ot assassins. I also try to manage my trade rights to make sure I don't trade with my allies' enemy and such.

In my game as Venice, I allied myself with HRE and Milan. Both alliances lasted for a long time until they attacked me. After repeated cease fire agreements, they re-attacked and got excommunicated a couple of time. Yet, while all I ever did was defend myself, I ended up with a "very untrustworthy" label while both of them are "Very reliable". How is that even possible?

[Surgeon]

Yes it is, and the harder your campaign difficulty the more aggressive other factions will be. Eventually they will all turn on you, especially if you have a big empire.

Oh, and next time don't bother allying with Milan. That's the DEVIL faction.

[Double A]

You can't spell Milan without... an... and they are an evil faction!

[Incomitatus]

You have to work at keeping your reliability up. Release prisoners. Never sack town, always occupy. Have more allies than you have ongoing wars.

Spies and assassins are irrelevant to your reputation, though using them can damage your relations and give your Leader dread.

[thursgun]

No matter how nice I am to other factions. I always end up with a "very untrustworthy" label. I never break alliances, I don't exterminate populace or execute prisoners. I don't use spies ot assassins. I also try to manage my trade rights to make sure I don't trade with my allies' enemy and such.

In my game as Venice, I allied myself with HRE and Milan. Both alliances lasted for a long time until they attacked me. After repeated cease fire agreements, they re-attacked and got excommunicated a couple of time. Yet, while all I ever did was defend myself, I ended up with a "very untrustworthy" label while both of them are "Very reliable". How is that even possible?

Keep your global reputation high. At the start of the game ally with factions you know you won't break alliance in a long time. For Instance, don't ally with Poland and Russia, because it's very likely they will fight and you will be force to break alliance with one of them and that will drop your reputation.

Also keep the Pope happy, build churches and as many priest as you can. You don't have to do everything he says, but once in a while go to a crusade.

Fight against factions with lower reputation than yours. Otherwise, don't fight unless you are attacked.

Finally, there are many guides about keeping your reputation high, try looking for them.

Best of luck

[eXistenZ]

Yeah using assassins and spies will effect your faction leader's dread.

[Shasqua]

Yeah using assassins and spies will effect your faction leader's dread.

And authority. I routinely order dozens of assassinations to increase my leader's authority and knock off pesky princesses and priests.

[painter]

If you can join a crusade, you should, as there are tons of bonuses for a successful crusade.

[Scipio Afracanis]

1st time I am trying to keep my rep. at least mixed. I am at the half way point and have managed to keep it there.
Keep gifting regions to the Pope and going on every Crusade, if I get excommunicated I just buy my reconcilation the next turn. Working well so far.

[zcylen]

in my last campain as venice
I signed trade rights, and alliances with Milan, HRE and The Papal States
inmediatly, I got a 7+++++++ level with the Pope and was the highest of all Catholic factions
its already turn 60 and no wars with any western faction, only Bizantium and Hungary

[painter]

in my last campain as venice
I signed trade rights, and alliances with Milan, HRE and The Papal States
inmediatly, I got a 7+++++++ level with the Pope and was the highest of all Catholic factions
its already turn 60 and no wars with any western faction, only Bizantium and Hungary

What difficulty was this in?

[zcylen]

What difficulty was this in?

H/H Vanilla
Im still playing that campain
currently turn 90. Milan still remains loyal
The papal States the same.

I had a short war with HRE, but after I took Bologna, they request peace and we even became
allies agan, and after that, they're still loyal. fighting with me against the hungarians

[Medkirtys]

H/H Vanilla
Im still playing that campain
currently turn 90. Milan still remains loyal
The papal States the same.

I had a short war with HRE, but after I took Bologna, they request peace and we even became
allies agan, and after that, they're still loyal. fighting with me against the hungarians

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[beckyolt]

Don't bother with Alliances. Allies wont help you anyway. Was that in Vanilla?

[Spartan90]

Don't bother with Alliances. Allies wont help you anyway. Was that in Vanilla?

I disagree. The more allies you have, the more your global reputation goes up each turn.

To the OP, make alliances with countries you will never go to war with, or who will never go to war with each other. For example, if you play as HRE, ally with England, Sicily, The Order and Crusader States (I have a thing about only allying with Christian states if I am Christian myself ).

They will never go to war with each other, so your rep will always go up. If you are forced to break an alliance due to two allies going to war, or you invading, your rep drops drammatically.

Also, don't cancel any treaties - this includes trade rights! You said that you're careful that you don't make trade rights with your allies' enemies. This shouldn't matter. And if you are micromanaging trade by cancelling and restarting trade rights, your rep falls again.

Spies and Assassins do no affect rep.

Don't have any unnecessary wars. If you're at war with a far-flung country due to a Crusade or random port block, immediately get a ceasefire. You lose rep every turn you're at war, so make wars short and snappy.

As soon as you win a battle, don't choose the option to chase prisoners. Obviously, as you know, any prisoners that you take in the battle should be released. As well as occupying cities, etc. which is obvious.

I actually find the diplomacy quite good, if you know how to manipulate it. I'm doing an experiment with HRE, and with a few gifts here and there, I have perfect relations with all non-Muslim countries, and no Catholic countries are at war with each other.

If I can give you one tip for diplomacy, preventing backstabbing, keeping people happy, and keeping your rep high - money talks. I lose about 50,000 per turn due to tributes to keep everyone happy, and I haven't had a single war declared on me or a Catholic nation declaring war on another Catholic nation in about 150 years.

[Xerrop]

No matter how nice I am to other factions. I always end up with a "very untrustworthy" label. I never break alliances, I don't exterminate populace or execute prisoners. I don't use spies ot assassins. I also try to manage my trade rights to make sure I don't trade with my allies' enemy and such.

This does not matter at all in the long run. When the players empire gets bigger more and more AI factions declare war on the player.
The AI does also stupid things like concentrating the troops on the player and forgetting the other borders of their empires. And they rarely accept peace even when being reduced to the last town. Another hint that the games are not planned for "realistic" diplomacy but for the player vs. the whole AI states simple.

[Scipio Afracanis]

I will try the more alliances = better rep for my next game.

[Spartan90]

Just be certain that you will never break, or be forced to break any of them Let me know how it goes.

[painter]

It would be easier to just pick one to three alliances and stick with it, at least while you're getting the hang of diplomacy.

[Spartan90]

Not necessarily, there will be some factions that you can easily ally with and never have to worry about for the rest of the game. Portugal and Russia? England and Kiev? The Order and Spain?