How does one fight the Byzantines?

**Noozooroo** · October 31, 2010, 04:59 AM

It's been a long time since I've played MII, and a couple days ago I started a campaign as the English (custom map, but same rules and things like that as Kingdoms update). I'm almost finished eradicating the Aztecs (bastards are tough as nails). Before we went to war, and for most of the time we were at war, they were the most powerful faction in my game militarily, but as I started gaining momentum, the Byzantines pulled far ahead in strength (not being at war with anyone). Clearly they're going to attack me soon.

So, being English, all I can really throw at the Byzantines are Knights Templar, longbowmen, and Armored Swordsmen/New World Cuirassiers. They Byzzies are big on missile cavalry, so how am I to counter this with my big lumbering armies?

**Silverheart** · October 31, 2010, 05:14 AM

Fighting against Horse Archers is a tough nut, since there is no obvious strategy that doesn´t bring any risks with it.
You could recruit mercenary HA and try to outnumber their mounted misssile-men with their own weapon.
You could also use heavy cavalry to chase them until they are exhausted, and then use a light cavalry-unit to charge in and finish them off when they are too tired to fight efficiently.
Or you could use a large amount of long-range missile troops (Retinue Longbowmen, Yeomen Archers - 5 units at least) and take advantage of the fact that HA have short range, by spamming them with volley after volley of hundreds of arrows.
Then, you could also ignore them for the entire battle, and instead focus on killing off the main army - once all the others have fled the field, the HA won´t be so keen to stay and fight on their own...

Personally, my favorite strategy is simply to send a Medium-weight Cavalry unit straight at them in the beginning of the battle, and have them chase them until they´re out of ammo.
Surprisingly, this strategy works most the time.
Once The enemy HA run out of ammo, and engage my cavalry in close combat, they´re usually far away from their main army (because of the chase) and so tired that it causes severe damage to their morale.
Only if my Cavalry is too light-weight (poor combat ability) or if they have more units of HA than I have Cavalry is there a chance that it won´t work.

**Noozooroo** · October 31, 2010, 05:18 AM

I could definitely do the long-range archers thing - I typically keep at least 5 longbowmen in my armies.

And what medium cavalry is there? I know there's no specific designation for it like there is for Light and Heavy Cav, so am I looking at Mailed Knights?

**ChivalrousKiller** · October 31, 2010, 09:24 AM

Yeah, mailed knights would be medium cavalry

And I think a full stack of longbowmen is the best choice against horse archers, seriously

**Noozooroo** · October 31, 2010, 11:57 AM

Yeah, seems like stacking my army with inferior cavalry is not the way to go. I'll just go heavy on the Retinue Longbowmen and heavy cavalry.

Thanks guys.

**ChivalrousKiller** · October 31, 2010, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by Noozooroo

Yeah, seems like stacking my army with inferior cavalry is not the way to go. I'll just go heavy on the Retinue Longbowmen and heavy cavalry.

Yeah, sounds good

I would keep my cavalry behind the longbowmen until the enemy is close enough. If they stop to shoot at you, you could be able to charge them, covered by the longbowmen

**Noozooroo** · October 31, 2010, 01:44 PM

Yeah I just heart Longbowmen.

Thanks again guys, everytime I post on these forums, everybody's really helpful.

**Incomitatus** · October 31, 2010, 01:26 PM

Mounted Sergeants with the mail armour upgrade work fine. They are also fast enough to catch most horse archers. Just be careful of going after high end horse archers that have good melee stats. For them, send a unit of mailed knights along to gang up on them.

**painter** · October 31, 2010, 06:10 PM

Whenever I fight against HA, the best time to kill them is on their first approach to your lines. Then when they show signs of going into a circle, I would send flanking calvary to make them scatter then immediately retreat my calvary. Once sufficient numbers of them are dead, I will slowly focus my archers on more higher priority targets.

Another good time to kill them is if the enemy army refuses to approach me, then I would try to send one or two archer units to kill what accessible stationery HA from a distance. It's a bit harder on the nerves, since my archers would be out in the open, away from the security of the stakes.

**Chad29** · November 01, 2010, 10:15 PM

I don't think anyone mentioned this, but planting stakes and luring them into the stakes is an option for England.

**Noozooroo** · November 02, 2010, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by Chad29

I don't think anyone mentioned this, but planting stakes and luring them into the stakes is an option for England.

But typically the enemy stops charging right in front if the stakes instead of just running into them.

I actually stopped using stakes because when I fought the Aztecs, I would charge their backs with my cavalry while they engaged my infantry. If I used stakes, I would kill my own horses...

**Noozooroo** · November 02, 2010, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by Chad29

I don't think anyone mentioned this, but planting stakes and luring them into the stakes is an option for England.

But typically the enemy stops charging right in front if the stakes instead of just running into them.

I actually stopped using stakes because when I fought the Aztecs, I would charge their backs with my cavalry while they engaged my infantry. If I used stakes, I would kill my own horses...

EDIT: Sorry for double post, I don't know how to delete posts.

**KnightOfPortugal** · November 06, 2010, 03:14 PM

Your Longbowmen slaughter them with ease.

**... where did it run?** · November 09, 2010, 03:53 AM

Your Longbowmen slaughter them with ease.

Unless it's dvor cavalry with armor upgrades and it charges your longbowmen in melee. Pray you have stakes.

**nhinhonhinho** · November 07, 2010, 03:49 AM

Bring a bunch or in some case full stack of Longbowmen, Yeoman, Retinue Longbowmen. Lay stakes in front and both flanks. Then you don't have to worry about anything instead your enemy have a full stack of very heavy armor infantry.

When you use stakes just let your cavalry (if there are any) seat back behind your archers and wait to chase routers

**Haakon** · November 09, 2010, 05:57 AM

Put your archers on top of a hill.

**Capt. Picolinni** · November 10, 2010, 03:05 AM

You can use heavily armoured infantry in support to your Longbowmen. Use light cavalry (Hobliers maybe) to herd them towards your infantry.

Of cause it would be easier if you had access to Battlefield Assassins. Hide them in front of your archers or crossbowmen and they stay hiding until moved or someone steps on them. The tactic I used with Hungary, but the cavalry one works well all horse archers esp. the Mongols.