A strengthening of Russian-NATO cooperation with regard to Afghanistan.

[ivan_the_terrible]

English-language source:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...o-2117468.html

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Afghanistan: Russia steps in to help Nato


By Kim Sengupta in Brussels

Wednesday, 27 October 2010


Russia has agreed to return to the war in Afghanistan at the request of the Western states which helped the mujahedin to drive its forces out of the country 21 years ago.


The Independent has learnt that Moscow is engaged in training the Afghan army and counter-narcotics troops and has agreed in principle to supply Nato with several dozen helicopters for use in Afghanistan.

A number of aircraft have already been sold to Poland, a member of the US-led coalition, for use in the conflict. Now Nato is in talks with the Russians over direct supplies of more helicopters, training the pilots, and allowing arms and ammunition to be transported through Russian territory as an alternative to a Pakistani route which has come under repeated Taliban attack.

A groundbreaking agreement with Russia on the issue is likely to be announced at the Nato summit next month in Lisbon, which is due to be attended by President Dmitry Medvedev.

In return for help in Afghanistan Moscow is seeking what it terms as more co-operation from Nato. President Barack Obama has already scrapped missile-defence shields in Poland and the Czech Republic, proposals for which had led to prolonged protests from Moscow, and Nato has agreed that Russia will be consulted on the replacement system.

Moscow would also like Nato to accept a fait accompli over Georgia, where Russian troops remain in South Ossetia and Abkhazia after the war of two years ago. American and European officials maintain that the occupation of a member state's sovereign territory is not a matter for compromise.

The helicopters are needed for the use of Afghan forces which Isaf (International Security and Assistance Force) is training to take over security as part of the West's exit strategy from the war.

It was the supply of American Stinger missiles by US and British intelligence to Afghan rebels, enabling them to shoot down Russian helicopters, which changed the course of the Soviet war in Afghanistan and helped to hasten the collapse of the Communist government in Moscow.

That war, with its acts of brutality committed by both sides, has left bitter memories among many in the country, and the news that the Russian military is playing a part in the war is likely to be exploited by the Taliban.

The former Cold War enemies have been drawn together by the common threat of Islamist terrorism, some of it directly spawned from Western aid to jihadists in the 1980s.

Moscow is also concerned about a flow of heroin through central Asia to its cities from Afghanistan. And it urgently wishes to reassert its influence in the region.

The Nato secretary-general, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, asked for helicopters during a visit to Moscow last year. "Russia has reflected on that and there are now bilateral talks between Russia and the United States on such helicopters," Mr Rasmussen said on Monday in Brussels. He added that he "would not exclude that we could facilitate that process within the Nato-Russia Council", a body which acts as a discussion forum with Moscow.

Russian and Western defence sources told The Independent that Moscow has provided five Mi-17 military helicopters to Poland for Afghanistan, with the first two to be delivered by the end of the year.

Afghan military officers are already being trained in a number of Russian defence institutes, according to the Russian deputy foreign minister Aleksander Grushko. Mr Grushko underlined that Moscow wanted a binding mutual restraint agreement with Nato and an agreement to delink the Georgia crisis from an arms treaty. He added: "We are ready to co-operate with Nato, because we think we are doing a common job."

Anatoly Serdyukov, who became the first Russian defence minister to visit the Pentagon where he met the US Defence Secretary, Robert Gates, last month, said that Russia was willing to sell or lease Mi-17s for use by Afghan forces, and will countenance similar deals with Nato member countries.

"It is a matter of several dozen Mi-17s that Nato will purchase from us," Mr Serdyukov said.

"I hope that Western peacemaking troops will not withdraw before they have fulfilled their mission. We are watching things in Afghanistan very closely and we are exchanging our experience with the Americans. Russia is ready to pass on to America the experience gained by our veterans of the war in Afghanistan.

"Withdrawal of the [Western] troops would naturally affect the situation in central Asia, we currently cannot even imagine how. For this reason we want to help the West, among other things with helicopters, whose delivery we are now discussing."

Securing new supply routes for Nato forces in Afghanistan – which now number more than Russian troops during their war – has become urgent for the West with attacks on convoys in Pakistan by insurgents, some of which, claim Western officials, are instigated by members of the Pakistani military and intelligence service.

Russia allows some movements of supplies along its territory, but restricts the types of weaponry being moved. Nato would like this removed. According to defence sources, Moscow has indicated that it may agree to this after carrying out security checks along the route, which starts at the all-weather Latvian port of Riga and arrives in Afghanistan through Russia, and the former Soviet territories of Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan.

Russia's changing role

July 1979 Operation Cyclone launched by the CIA, using US and Saudi money and help of the Pakistani military regime to start arming the mujaheddin.

December 1979 Soviet intervention at request of Afghan government. Moscow falls out with President Hafizullah Amin, his palace in Kabul is attacked and he is killed.

March 1980 to April 1985 Soviet forces begin offensives, especially near the Pakistani and Iranian borders. US and British supply Stinger missiles enabling mujaheddin to shoot down Russian helicopters. New Soviet General Secretary Mikhail Gorbachev increases troop levels to 110,000.

April 1985 to January 1987 Russian exit strategy based on training up Afghan security forces to take on insurgency. Rebels are still aided by the West.

January 1987 to February 1989 Soviet forces withdraw from Afghanistan with loss of 14,427.

Irony aside, how do you view this development?

In my opinion it is positive, though I would have said it was 'temporary' if the Afghanistan wasn't such a long-term issue.

Seems the so-called 'Cold War mentality' isn't as strong as 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' mentality.

[humvee2800]

See im in favour of the missile sheild, but I am finding it strange how Obama is saying he is scrapping the program but operations too deploy missile stations in romania and elsewhere appear to still be a go.

[Vizsla]

Forget the past.
Right now the US and Russia can benefit from cooperation.
Increased trade, WMD proliferation, missile technology proliferation, terrorists, Afghanistan, Iran, Julian Assange
You know it makes sense.

[removeduser_487563287433]

It's no bad thing. If Afghanistan is to stabilise then it will need the support of neighbouring states and given that means Pakistan or Iran, we may have actually found the situation where Russia is the lesser of all the evils.

Still, if Putin ever came back this whole pro-western attitude would be quickly reversed.

[corpse helvetica]

It's no bad thing. If Afghanistan is to stabilise then it will need the support of neighbouring states and given that means Pakistan or Iran, we may have actually found the situation where Russia is the lesser of all the evils.

Still, if Putin ever came back this whole pro-western attitude would be quickly reversed.

for Russians the main motivation.... situation in Dagestan and Inguchetia in spite of throwing billions of roubles there, is worsening: more and more foreign radicals are influencing and financing and supporting local "separatists" and "partisans". All this is happening on the neibourghood of Tchetchenya - currently quiet but...

Most of.. "foreign freedom fighters" have been trained( but it does not mean that recruits are locals) either in Afghanistan or those uncontrollable regions in Pakistan.

And drug trade, nothing, I mean absolutely nothing, is stopping it from Afghanistan to Russia.

[ivan_the_terrible]

The part about helicopters I found interesting. I don't know very much about military hardware; could someone who does explain if NATO lacks an adequate design, or adequate quantity, or what. Why do they need to buy non-NATO equipment?

[Vizsla]

The part about helicopters I found interesting. I don't know very much about military hardware; could someone who does explain if NATO lacks an adequate design, or adequate quantity, or what. Why do they need to buy non-NATO equipment?

They’re for the Afghani air force. The pilots were trained to fly Russian helicopters when the USSR was there.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Um, because Afghanistan is one of the world's poorest states, yet requires helicopters, so the only option is cheap and nasty, not apaches?

[Azog 150]

Um, because Afghanistan is one of the world's poorest states, yet requires helicopters, so the only option is cheap and nasty, not apaches?

There is also the fact that Russian choppers are more suited to the conditions of Afghanistan (High pressure, high altitude and dusty). As with most Russian equipment, it tends to be more robust with less maintenance required. Plus, as you said its cheap (although its the West buying Afghan equipment, not Afghanistan itself). They are also more versitile then Apaches (Able to act as both a gun ship and a transport)



Edit: According to wiki (so it could well be false), US Special Forces are considering using the Mi-17 in order to 'obscure troop movements' and apparently already use it in training.

[Azog 150]

Its a good thing to break down these Cold war boundries. We are in the 21st Century now, and the West and Russia can benefit greatly from co-operation. Both have similar problems in regard to terrorism and Islamic extremism, both have concerns about the rise of China to the East and both can co-operate on trade (Particularly natural resources).

[Exarch]

something smells fishy here, folks
neither Washington or Moscow like to cooperate with each other, they're like Garcia's character in 'Oceans' 11/12/13', they're not your friend and not quite your enemy but they will see about screwing you up if it'll benefit them, and they need a lot of benefits.
that goes for either Washington or Moscow

[ivan_the_terrible]

Oh, ok. I thought it meant for NATO forces: it says Poland already buys them, and that NATO has ordered more. So I thought it was maybe for other coalition members.

[Vizsla]

Says here that the Mi-17 was specifically designed for Afghanistan by the USSR. Article also says the US has bought some for Iraq and Pakistan too. One recently crashed in Pakistan so they’re a little concerned about safety for some reason.

[Tiberios]

Good.

[Exarch]

Says here that the Mi-17 was specifically designed for Afghanistan by the USSR. Article also says the US has bought some for Iraq and Pakistan too. One recently crashed in Pakistan so they’re a little concerned about safety for some reason.

yo, what's wrong with apaches and blackhawks?

[Vizsla]

yo, what's wrong with apaches and blackhawks?

If you click on the link you’ll see.
It says the US is having trouble training Afghans to fly them so they are relying on older pilots who only know how to fly Russian helicopters.

[Imperial]

yo, what's wrong with apaches and blackhawks?

They're to complicated for the Afghans to use. Russian choppers are much easier and cheaper.

[hellheaven1987]

I wonder whether it is Gorbachev's great plan to "win" Afghanistan since Soviet era.

[grouchy13]

It is perfect Logical for NATO and Russia to co-operate, the worlds real security issue these days is Fundamental Islam both the West and Russia have seen attacks by various branches of this ideology, many people will argue that such groups are not linked I would disagree, if there is no collaberation between Fundamental Islamic groups how do Syrians and Yemini's wind up in Afganistan, how then did Chechen fighters become involved in Iraq during the bloody days of the Insurgency and with many Jihadists being known to utilize Somalia as a safe haen, Is it not also Logical then that as the West and Russia join forces that Islamic groups should co-operate in men and material and allow their fighters into areas of Combat to train and gain experience that they can take into their own theatres, this is noting new sine 1995 the Western and Russian authorities suspected Al Qaeda of of soliciting such transfers, these actions continue to this day some reading for those who have an intrest in such matters,

From The Times

June 17, 2009
Foreign fighters flood in to join Afghanistan's Arab insurgents

Tom Coghlan Kabul

div#related-article-links p a, div#related-article-links p a:visited { color: rgb(0, 102, 204); } The al-Qaeda network is recruiting an increasing number of foreign fighters to mount a “counter surge” against Western troops arriving in time for the August elections in Afghanistan.
Uzbeks and European Turks are particularly prominent among foreign fighters joining significant numbers of Arab recruits to fight alongside the Taleban, according to Western officials and sources in the Afghan insurgency.
There are even reports of British Muslims on the battlefield, with one dead Taleban fighter in Helmand found recently sporting an Aston Villa football club tattoo. There have long been reports of English-speaking voices with identifiable British regional accents being monitored by military eavesdroppers in the province.
A Taleban commander in Helmand, who asked not to be identified, told The Times: “We have seen a 40 per cent increase in the number of foreign fighters this year in Helmand. They are mostly Pakistanis and Arabs but also Uzbek and Chechen.” Helmand has averaged more than ten attacks a day in the first half of the year, making it nearly two and a half times more violent than the next most Taleban affected province of the country.
Western officials have reported attacks on Taleban formations that included many Arabs, particularly in the province of Paktika, in south eastern Afghanistan, where 34 Arab militants died in a US bomb attack on May 28.
Significant numbers of Turkish militants have also been monitored in Farah Province and Uzbeks reported in numbers in Zabul, and Faryab and Badghis provinces in the north.

Foreign fighters invade Somalia, claims president

MOGADISHU, SOMALIA May 25 2009 14:27

Somalia's embattled president, Sharif Sheikh Ahmed, on Monday condemned what he described as an invasion by foreign fighters amid claims of jihadists flooding into the country in recent months.

"Somalia is being invaded by foreign fighters, whose main purpose is to turn the country into an Afghanistan or an Iraq," Sharif said at a press conference in his office.

"We call on the international community and the Somali people to help us in fighting against them."

According to Somali security officials and foreign intelligence sources in the region, there are up to 500 foreign jihadist fighters in the troubled country, most of whom arrived over the past few months.

Inspired by al-Qaeda ideology, these foreign fighters -- from Arab, Asian as well as European countries -- are believed to have assisted Somali insurgents in their latest offensive against Sharif's fledgling administration.

Hardline insurgents launched a nationwide military push against pro-government forces on May 7, leaving Sharif and a handful of Cabinet members holed up in the presidential compound in Mogadishu.

In his rare press conference, the internationally backed president of Somalia's transitional administration praised what he described as "freedom fighting" by citizens spontaneously rising up against the insurgents.

"We welcome the efforts by Somali freedom fighters in some of the regions to fight against the culprits and the foreign fighters they brought the country," he said.

The rebel push is spearheaded by two armed groups: the al-Shabaab, a hardline military movement with suspected links to al-Qaeda, and Hezb al-Islamiya, a more political group loyal to influential cleric Sheikh Hassan Dahir Aweys. -- Sapa-AFP

Instead of promulgating Cold War stereotypes and fears the West and Russia should align themselves to combat this dangerous threat, Many will argue that Ideologies such as Fundamental Islam cannot be beaten by force alone I say that the West and Russia stood side by side once and crushed National Socialism once it had manifested as a nation state, I'm not saying the war against Fundamental Islam is in any way, shape or form similar to WW2, I merely want to highlight that with the combined forces of Nato and the Russian Federation we can easily prevent AQ or any of its affiliates from achieving a pre 9/11 situation similar to what that they had in Afghansitan into any other nation, and in turn prevent them exporting terror and taking the poor peoples that they would rule over into some nightmare Medieval Islamic Caliphate.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Um, they cost about $10 million a pop?