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    Default Canadian child soldier pleads guilty to murdering US servicemen

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/26/us...mo.html?src=mv

    WASHINGTON — A former child soldier being held at the military prison on Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, pleaded guilty on Monday to terrorism-related charges, averting the awkward prospect that he would be the first defendant to stand trial before a military commission under the Obama administration.

    Omar Khadr, 24, a Canadian citizen, admitted to a military judge that he threw a grenade that killed an American soldier during a July 2002 firefight and that he had planted 10 roadside bombs for Al Qaeda. Mr. Khadr, born in Toronto, was 15 years old when he was captured in Afghanistan.
    continued
    In exchange for pleading guilty to five charges — including murder in violation of the law of war, supporting terrorism, and spying — Mr. Khadr was spared the risk of a life sentence. A panel of seven military officers will now decide how long his prison sentence will be.

    But his plea agreement is believed to cap the time at eight years, on top of the eight he has already been in custody. In addition, the United States has promised to support his eventual application to transfer to Canadian custody after he serves at least one more year in Guantánamo.

    Mr. Khadr’s decision to plead guilty was a turnabout, since last summer he vowed in open court that he would never accept such an arrangement on the grounds that doing so would allow the United States government to save face. He contended that he was coerced by elder relatives into working with Al Qaeda and was not at fault.

    The deal to avert a trial of Mr. Khadr represents a breakthrough for the Obama administration’s legal team, which had been dismayed that his case was to become the inaugural run of a new-look military commissions system — undermining their efforts to rebrand the tribunals in the eyes of the world as a fair and just forum for prosecuting terrorism suspects.

    The plea deal followed a flurry of complex negotiations, including a side deal between the United States and Canada. Reached on Saturday, it says that the Canadian government will treat the results of a military commission trial in the same way as a regular civilian court’s, under a prisoner transfer treaty.

    It remains unclear, however, whether the government of the Canadian prime minister, Stephen Harper, which has declined to seek Mr. Khadr’s repatriation, would accept any bid by Mr. Khadr to serve out the remainder of his sentence in Canada.

    The commission system was set up by former President George W. Bush in November 2001, and has long been contentious. The Supreme Court struck down one version of the system in 2006, and it has resulted in only a handful of convictions.

    President Obama had campaigned for the White House as a critic of the Bush administration’s version of military commissions. One of his first acts after taking office was to halt all the prosecutions then underway at the American military base in Cuba — including the case against Mr. Khadr.

    But Mr. Obama and his advisors later decided that it was necessary to keep a form of the tribunals if some detainees were to receive any trial at all. The commission rules provided greater flexibility than civilian court about the admission of certain evidence, like hearsay and material gathered from the battlefield.

    The administration spent months working with Congress to set up new commission rules that provide greater protections to defendants. It then restarted the trials in November 2009, hoping that the overhaul would change their global image as a second-class justice system. Some allies have refused to provide crucial evidence or witnesses for use in the tribunals,.

    Still, no one intended Mr. Khadr’s case to become the first trial under the revamped system, complicating efforts to showcase the reforms. But in August, a Sudanese detainee’s trial was averted when the man pled guilty, and Mr. Khadr’s was next in line.

    Mr. Khadr, who comes from a family with links to al Qaeda, was a teenager in the summer of 2002 when he was found, heavily wounded, at a Qaeda compound in Afghanistan that had been attacked by United States troops.

    A grenade blast in that firefight killed an Army sergeant, Christopher Speer. American investigators later concluded that Mr. Khadr probably threw the grenade, and a videotape found the compound was said to show Mr. Khadr helping to make and plant roadside bombs.

    But several factors made the effort to prosecute Mr. Khadr for war crimes unusual.

    The centerpiece of the charges against him was not a conventional terrorism offense — the targeting of civilians — but the killing of an enemy in combat. Usually in war, battlefield killing is not prosecuted. But the United States contended that Mr. Khadr lacked the privilege of battlefield immunity because he wore no uniform, among other requirements of the laws of war.

    The uniform issue also led to a scramble by the Obama legal team to rewrite commission rules on the eve of a pretrial hearing for Mr. Khadr. Because Central Intelligence Agency drone operators also kill while not wearing uniforms, they rewrote the rules to downgrade murder from a war crime to a domestic law offense.

    Moreover, child soldiers are almost never prosecuted for war crimes. That meant that the coverage of Mr. Khadr’s case around the world was dominated by persistent questions about whether the case was appropriate.

    On Monday, for example, Human Rights Watch said the United States “should never have pursued the case” because convicting someone of war crimes for actions taken as a juvenile for the first time since World War II “sets a terrible precedent.”

    The Khadr plea deal means that the first commission trial in the Obama era is likely to instead be the prosecution of Noor Uthman Mohammed, a Sudanese man captured at a suspected Qaeda safehouse in Pakistan in 2002.

    He is accused of being an important Qaeda figure who ran a terrorist training camp, was a Taliban unit commander, and was planning to participate in a terrorist operation against Israel. His trial is scheduled for February 2011.

    After so many years, it's finally good to see that what was painfully obvious to anyone who could put 2+2 together has turned out to indeed be the reality.

    I would personally prefer this terrorist hanged than giving him an 8 year sentence. What do you believe?
    Last edited by Darth Red; October 27, 2010 at 08:24 AM. Reason: spoiler

  2. #2

    Default Re: Canadian child soldier pleads guilty to murdering US servicemen

    Yep. Lets kill all child soldiers. It's not like western countries have signed some sort of agreement on this...

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    Squiggle's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Canadian child soldier pleads guilty to murdering US servicemen

    Quote Originally Posted by GuineaPig View Post
    Yep. Lets kill all child soldiers. It's not like western countries have signed some sort of agreement on this...
    He isnt a child anymore. Hang him. I agree with the OP, terrorists should be killed, not given jail time.
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    Default Re: Canadian child soldier pleads guilty to murdering US servicemen

    Only eight years? Wtf. Guess what he's gonna do when he get's out of jail. He probably hates the West even more now after being at Guantanamo.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Canadian child soldier pleads guilty to murdering US servicemen

    Quote Originally Posted by Squiggle View Post
    He isnt a child anymore. Hang him. I agree with the OP, terrorists should be killed, not given jail time.
    I guess Al Quaeda or Talibans arent that barbaric when they cut off NATO soldiers heads after all Westerns can reach that low level aswell.
    Helping "Terrorists"? Well it depends whats your perspective the Taliban find NATO soldiers "Barbarian" invaders I guess if we go extreme... One thing would be bombing civilians in NY another one is fighing soldiers in battlefield I find this unrelated even when he was fighing for Talibans.

    Most murderes get more than 8 years I believe. He is getting off on a most severe crime, crimes that nazis committed and died for.
    Yes genociding a people and killeng soldiers in war is identical!
    And as far I remember it US and UK had no problem with Nazis if they had somethign they wanted otherwise how US would reach the Moon? Yeah you killed a bunch of jews but you beat the reds in space race so you are hero Von Braun!


    As far as I know, a person is not considered a legal combatant if the person is not wearing a uniform while participating in fighting.
    This person is a Canadian, so his country wasn't invaded. It is indeed a crime to kill someone in war if you yourself aren't a uniformed member of a nation's armed forces.


    Are you guys calling the Wolverines Terrorists?! COMMIES!
    Last edited by RomanSoldier9001; October 25, 2010 at 08:34 PM.

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    Default Re: Canadian child soldier pleads guilty to murdering US servicemen

    Quote Originally Posted by RomanSoldier9001 View Post
    And as far I remember it US and UK had no problem with Nazis if they had somethign they wanted otherwise how US would reach the Moon? Yeah you killed a bunch of jews but you beat the reds in space race so you are hero Von Braun!
    I'm not going to be so naive as to say that Von Braun didn't hear of the camps, but for some reason, I don't think that Hitler had him serve as a camp guard...

    Personally, I think he should get life.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cougar109 View Post
    ...Though I'm still trying to figure out how a show that dives down into the subjects of genocide and racism ... landed next to Spongebob.

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    Default Re: Canadian child soldier pleads guilty to murdering US servicemen

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight_of_Ni View Post
    I'm not going to be so naive as to say that Von Braun didn't hear of the camps, but for some reason, I don't think that Hitler had him serve as a camp guard...

    Personally, I think he should get life.
    Von Braun should get a life like Klaus Barbie ,Gehlen or Shirō Ishii as long as they help "Uncle Sam" those that have no value can be hanged for show but those that have some value for US lets bring them in!Even if they are notirous war criminals.



    Or as a traitor for being Canadian and fighting in a war against his country's side...

    If you're not an actual soldier, you're not a POW. God I wish people would make an effort to understand the definition of words before they use them.
    Rules of War should be uptaded I see no difference from him and milions of resistance fighers in history of mankind and even today. And for what its worth I see no difference from soldier with exception that he went there for believing in something while soldier is more for paycheck than country nowsdays.

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    Default Re: Canadian child soldier pleads guilty to murdering US servicemen

    Quote Originally Posted by GuineaPig View Post
    Yep. Lets kill all child soldiers. It's not like western countries have signed some sort of agreement on this...
    They aren't killing him.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Canadian child soldier pleads guilty to murdering US servicemen

    I don't know, when I was 15 years old, I certainly knew that training with terrorists and throwing grenades at allied soldiers was not a good thing. But hey, let's hold him to some standard based upon completely arbitrary date.

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    Default Re: Canadian child soldier pleads guilty to murdering US servicemen

    Quote Originally Posted by Stavroforos View Post
    I don't know, when I was 15 years old, I certainly knew that training with terrorists and throwing grenades at allied soldiers was not a good thing. But hey, let's hold him to some standard based upon completely arbitrary date.
    That's the problem with Western red-tape. They punish teachers for "allowing" a child to carry a knife in school and not the child who clearly knew not to. They let off gang-rapers under the age of 14 with nothing more than opening a police file, and then seem surprised when underage crime grows. They can't quite make a distinction between an autistic child and a plain evil child, so just to be on the safe side they act as if underagers don't know what they're doing...
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    Walruses use their iconic long tusks for a variety of reasons, each of which makes their lives in the Arctic a bit easier. They use them to haul their enormous bodies out of frigid waters, thus their "tooth-walking" label, and to break breathing holes into ice from below. Their tusks, which are found on both males and females, can extend to about three feet (one meter), and are, in fact, large canine teeth, which grow throughout their lives. Male walruses, or bulls, also employ their tusks aggressively to maintain territory and, during mating season, to protect their harems of females, or cows.
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    Default Re: Canadian child soldier pleads guilty to murdering US servicemen

    How can a man who murders US soldiers out of uniform as a war criminal be excused from death let alone be looking at walking free in canada after some years? Damn liberals are only pleased by the degredation of everything american. Whats the message this punishment sends? Kill American soldiers as a terrorist/war crimianl and the geneva convention gets abused and you will only recieve a small punishment. ing pathetic.
    Last edited by Pickle_mole; October 25, 2010 at 04:58 PM.
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    Default Re: Canadian child soldier pleads guilty to murdering US servicemen

    Quote Originally Posted by Pickle_mole View Post
    How can a man who murders US soldiers as a war criminal be excuse from death? Execute the criminal.
    I would also consider him a traitor, considering he is a Canadian and joined Canada's enemies and attacked Canada's allies.

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    Default Re: Canadian child soldier pleads guilty to murdering US servicemen

    Quote Originally Posted by Stavroforos View Post
    I would also consider him a traitor, considering he is a Canadian and joined Canada's enemies and attacked Canada's allies.
    True, he aslo has treason against him. At least when he gets transfered to Canada. Its considered murder because he is not a member of any foriegn military under a nations flag, hes a war criminal with no uniform.
    I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you F___ with me, I'll kill you all.
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    Default Re: Canadian child soldier pleads guilty to murdering US servicemen

    Its actually 16 years. He has already been in Guantanamo for 8 already.

    I am really estatic that he can apply after one year, to a Canadian prison.

    Ah yes, my tax dollars at work.
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    Squiggle's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Canadian child soldier pleads guilty to murdering US servicemen

    Quote Originally Posted by Stavroforos View Post
    I would also consider him a traitor, considering he is a Canadian and joined Canada's enemies and attacked Canada's allies.
    Agreed. We really should bring back the death penalty for treason, and bloody well apply it to this douche.
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    Default Re: Canadian child soldier pleads guilty to murdering US servicemen

    Quote Originally Posted by Pickle_mole View Post
    How can a man who murders US soldiers out of uniform as a war criminal be excused from death let alone be looking at walking free in canada after some years? Damn liberals are only pleased by the degredation of everything american. Whats the message this punishment sends? Kill American soldiers as a terrorist/war crimianl and the geneva convention gets abused and you will only recieve a small punishment. ing pathetic.

    if he's a war criminal for klling out of uniform so are the CIA drone operators. In fact so are all freedom fighters, setting that as a war crime sets a terrible prescedent. If you execute people for killing troops in combat you remove all reason for surrender or peace talks, they HAVE to fight to the death for to surrender is death, congratulations, you just made the tribes that don't like you now, your enemies for eternity, as to surrender is to accept obliteration.
    Last edited by justicar5; October 26, 2010 at 09:23 AM.

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    Default Re: Canadian child soldier pleads guilty to murdering US servicemen

    How can he be guilty of murder? Wait, why don't all soldiers who killed anyone in the war be arrested for murder? What is it just because he was on the other side? Lol you invade a country and you expect them to surrender? What's the difference of him being Canadian and 15? What's a terrorist anyway? If China tomorrow invaded the US and occupied part of it, would you call the civilians that blew up convoys and threw grenades at chinese soldiers terrorists? Hell no, you would call them freedom fighters. What's the difference here?

    So now it's a crime to kill someone in war? Wha..?

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Canadian child soldier pleads guilty to murdering US servicemen

    Quote Originally Posted by Sulphuristical View Post
    How can he be guilty of murder? Wait, why don't all soldiers who killed anyone in the war be arrested for murder? What is it just because he was on the other side? Lol you invade a country and you expect them to surrender? What's the difference of him being Canadian and 15? What's a terrorist anyway? If China tomorrow invaded the US and occupied part of it, would you call the civilians that blew up convoys and threw grenades at chinese soldiers terrorists? Hell no, you would call them freedom fighters. What's the difference here?

    So now it's a crime to kill someone in war? Wha..?
    This person is a Canadian, so his country wasn't invaded. It is indeed a crime to kill someone in war if you yourself aren't a uniformed member of a nation's armed forces.

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    Default Re: Canadian child soldier pleads guilty to murdering US servicemen

    Quote Originally Posted by Sulphuristical View Post
    How can he be guilty of murder? Wait, why don't all soldiers who killed anyone in the war be arrested for murder? What is it just because he was on the other side? Lol you invade a country and you expect them to surrender? What's the difference of him being Canadian and 15? What's a terrorist anyway? If China tomorrow invaded the US and occupied part of it, would you call the civilians that blew up convoys and threw grenades at chinese soldiers terrorists? Hell no, you would call them freedom fighters. What's the difference here?

    So now it's a crime to kill someone in war? Wha..?
    As far as I know, a person is not considered a legal combatant if the person is not wearing a uniform while participating in fighting.
    Last edited by Tiberios; October 25, 2010 at 05:01 PM.

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    Default Re: Canadian child soldier pleads guilty to murdering US servicemen

    Quote Originally Posted by Sulphuristical View Post
    How can he be guilty of murder? Wait, why don't all soldiers who killed anyone in the war be arrested for murder? What is it just because he was on the other side? Lol you invade a country and you expect them to surrender? What's the difference of him being Canadian and 15? What's a terrorist anyway? If China tomorrow invaded the US and occupied part of it, would you call the civilians that blew up convoys and threw grenades at chinese soldiers terrorists? Hell no, you would call them freedom fighters. What's the difference here?

    So now it's a crime to kill someone in war? Wha..?
    He did not wear clothing identifying him as a combatant which makes him an illegal combatant. As such he is not protected in the same way legal combatants who wear identifying clothing are. This statute is there to protect civilians.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

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