Terra Incognita

[Smokey Bacon]

Ok so this might be a stupid question and someone may allready have thought of it but if very thin strips of terra incognita, that is land owned by nobody, were to be put inbetween regions would this stop the AI declaring war on you everytime you share a border. If so it could be used to great effect. However I'm sure someone will allready have thought of this and it dosn't work but no harm in asking.

[Paedric]

I know this have been thought of (well, I did, at least), but I don't know if this has been tested.
Something somewhat similar, yet the opposite, was also theorized. If you put a circle of region borders, with those you want to war touching each other, you could push factions to go to war.

[Smokey Bacon]

Yeah, when I said it could be used to great effect you could use it both ways, leaving borders touching where you want the AI to attack and not touching where you want them to not attack. Obivously it wouldn't work perfectly and the palyer could probably manipulate it to make things easier for himself but no system is perfect when modding a game.

Posts merged - use the Edit button next time, rather than double-posting.

Could someone tell me why this would/wouldn't work please?

[dvk901]

That's actually quite an interesting idea. I'm sure it 'could' be done, but it's something that would need to be tested....and quite tedious in the 'doing'. Even a one pixel space between regions would probably suffice, but might be difficult with some of the smaller regions. I'm certain it would address the AI's awareness of being 'bordered' by another faction, but it would have to be tested to see that faction 'cohesiveness' wasn't altered (you would be, in a sense, creating a situation like the Free People factions where no region actually borders another, for the most part. This does affect how that faction performs). The problem I see with it is that the AI factions might be 'disjointed' as they expand....but who knows, it may not affect them at all. I think it would have to be done in a way so that faction starting regions were NOT separated this way, and only 'slave' or Free People regions separated.

[silentsam74]

Something somewhat similar, yet the opposite, was also theorized. If you put a circle of region borders, with those you want to war touching each other, you could push factions to go to war.

Here that is. It is called the Circle of Hatred.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showth...tred&p=2502117

[Chicken]

nice "find".... and pretty interesting idea, so +rep to OP and the guy above me

[Paedric]

That's actually quite an interesting idea. I'm sure it 'could' be done, but it's something that would need to be tested....and quite tedious in the 'doing'. Even a one pixel space between regions would probably suffice, but might be difficult with some of the smaller regions. I'm certain it would address the AI's awareness of being 'bordered' by another faction, but it would have to be tested to see that faction 'cohesiveness' wasn't altered (you would be, in a sense, creating a situation like the Free People factions where no region actually borders another, for the most part. This does affect how that faction performs). The problem I see with it is that the AI factions might be 'disjointed' as they expand....but who knows, it may not affect them at all. I think it would have to be done in a way so that faction starting regions were NOT separated this way, and only 'slave' or Free People regions separated.

We might want to do this only to some special places... like, say, mountain ranges. If we put this in the Pyrénées between France and Spain, we could refrain the Gallaeci from crossing too early. Other places could be between Sarmatian and Armenia, and between Carthage and Egypt.


Merged. You should know better than that Paedric!


I'm running a small AI test with some Terra Incognita between France and Spain.
It's seems to be working quite well, I don't think I've seen a Gallaeci invasion in France, neither the other way around. However, the Gallaeci are pushing Carthage far into Africa, and the Arverni control most of France.
I will post some more results later.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Edit : Wow, the Gallaeci have taken Carthage, and Sparta is in Italy now..., the Arverni are also almost on Rome
Edit2 :

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Ok, it's probably a bit too much, Rome and Carthage are almost dead...

[General Brittanicus]

So that circle of death can be used to make the ai attempt longer ranged attacks? Get rome to attack every faction in turn 2 so that thye get wiped out faster.

[Smokey Bacon]

Thanks for the rep and Paedric that's intresting, do you think that means it won't work at all or could with fine tuning? I would test it out myself but I don't have the modding skills.

[Paedric]

It means it's probably working too well. The Arverni and the Gallaeci never went at war against each other, and they steam-rolled the rest of the world.
At around 675, Carthage had been wiped out except for the Balear, and the same with Rome except for the islands like Sicily or Corsica. The Arverni had everything from Gaul to Sarmatia, except Greece.

I don't know if it prevents factions from simply going at war, or totally crossing the "boundary" though.

[Smokey Bacon]

If someone could set up a test where there is only two factions with terra incognita inbetween and see if they go to war?

Would there be a way to like script it to appear and disappear as alliances change? Or is that impossible within the engine.

And would making it so there was a route but the borders wern't completely open help?

[Paedric]

If someone could set up a test where there is only two factions with terra incognita inbetween and see if they go to war?

That's what I did, and they didn't go to war.

Would there be a way to like script it to appear and disappear as alliances change? Or is that impossible within the engine.

Not possible, changing the map is breaking the save.

And would making it so there was a route but the borders wern't completely open help?

I'll try to do some more tests today.

[Smokey Bacon]

I think it might be fiddly but I meant a test on a seperate installation of RTW and mod it so there are only 2 factions on the map. Then see if they go to war when there is terra incognita inbetween. To see if it is possible for the AI to choose to attack over it. Or is that what you meant you allready tryed?

And again I don't know if this could be done as I don't know about modding really but would there be a way of maybe giving a faction like the military access "attribute" to a nation when they declare war. If they have military access in terra incognita would that mean they would be more likely to move armies over it?

[Paedric]

I think it might be fiddly but I meant a test on a seperate installation of RTW and mod it so there are only 2 factions on the map. Then see if they go to war when there is terra incognita inbetween. To see if it is possible for the AI to choose to attack over it. Or is that what you meant you allready tryed?

And again I don't know if this could be done as I don't know about modding really but would there be a way of maybe giving a faction like the military access "attribute" to a nation when they declare war. If they have military access in terra incognita would that mean they would be more likely to move armies over it?

Ok, I didn't understand, no that's no what I've done. But going to try to separate the map in region, to see if each faction cross those or not.
As for your last question, I don't think that's possible.

[Paedric]

I think it might be fiddly but I meant a test on a seperate installation of RTW and mod it so there are only 2 factions on the map. Then see if they go to war when there is terra incognita inbetween. To see if it is possible for the AI to choose to attack over it. Or is that what you meant you allready tryed?

And again I don't know if this could be done as I don't know about modding really but would there be a way of maybe giving a faction like the military access "attribute" to a nation when they declare war. If they have military access in terra incognita would that mean they would be more likely to move armies over it?

Ok, I didn't understand, no that's no what I've done. But going to try to separate the map in region, to see if each faction cross those or not.
As for your last question, I don't think that's possible.

[Smokey Bacon]

double post :p

and ok, i look forward to seeing how that works out.

[GreatOne]

Oh man, I just got really excited after reading this XD

[Smokey Bacon]

any more news on this?

[Spartan 666]

I don't think it's a good idea. It would mean not to have any roads between cities any more. I'd rather deal with the stupid RTW diplomacy and mitigate it with force diplomacy.

Oh btw since this a "Terrae Incognitae" thread...why in Roman 1turn campaign Tara (Isomnis), the city of Hibernia, has been moved to the Sahara? I checked the background script and there is no reference to it, so I guess it is not required for the revolts.

So, is it possible to put it back in Hibernia and give the Sahara and Arabian desert to Gotland (the unconquerable scandian island occupied by Roman rebels)?

[dvk901]

I spent a considerable amount of time over two days separating regions by a one pixel margin using the Terra Incognita color, bur it didn't work. The map has issues and won't load. I gave up after the 3rd or 4th error.

Terra Incognita was placed in the desert in Africa to make it difficult for the AI to find or take it. The player should just know better.