After long voyage: Greatly depleted army

[jeff00seattle]

Hi

In England, I had committed a huge army (maximum number of units under one commander - a force of 1 4-star family member + 1000+ men, which included archers, knights, ballistas, spearman, etc...) for a faroff campaign across the Mediterranean sea; and they were deployed upon a flotilla of 7 holks.


After 7 turn later (after rounding Iberian Peninsula), without insident of attack by pirates or storm, the flotilla reached its destination. However, to my shocked and disappointing surprise at the landing site, a depleted pitiful army disembarked with only a 1 4-star family member + 150 men, which included only some archers and spearman. Totally useless.

1. What could have happened?
2. Should I have marched this huge army to its destination? However, if they were marched, then a flotilla would still be required to cross the great Mediterranean sea.

Thanks

[Medkirtys]

Were you crusading? If so, deserters

[jeff00seattle]

Yes, crusading.

Is desertion common in Crusades?
If so, then how does one prevent desertion?

[eggthief]

Yes, crusading.

Is desertion common in Crusades?
If so, then how does one prevent desertion?

Desertions occur when you don't get close enough each turn towards the crusade target. You sailed around the Iberian peninsula which is why this happened.

Next time you should march your army trough France onto Venice and hire a fleet from there to sail to the Holy Land in case that was where you were going.

[jeff00seattle]

Next time you should march your army trough France onto Venice and hire a fleet from there to sail to the Holy Land in case that was where you were going.

You can hire a fleet?

[zcylen]

You can hire a fleet?

yes, like hiring mercenaries
in the window you 're affered to buy ships
I just dont remember the cost

dont forget to have some money in any case

[zcylen]

mmm...desertions in the ocean?
how come?

I know it happens if you march by land..but in the ocean??
what...the just jump to the ocean?

[eggthief]

Yes, you can.

[jeff00seattle]

Can ships be hired other seaside settlements (besides Venice)?
Can other units (besides mercenaries) be hired from any settlements?

[Litoralis]

Can ships be hired other seaside settlements (besides Venice)?
Can other units (besides mercenaries) be hired from any settlements?

Yeah, a General can usually hire cogs or other ships as mercenaries (in the menu for hiring mercenaries) when he is close to water-- very close to water, as in touching the coast.

[... where did it run?]

Do not sail around iberia penisuela. They desert floating ship. Ye... people were strong at those times. They could swim couple dozens of miles with armor and etc. D:

[Monsieur Alphonse]

Soldiers start deserting when A their army isn't using all its movement points and / or B the army is not heading into the direction of the target.

This means sailing around Iberia is not a good idea. The same applies to being stopped by the zone of control of some one else.

Since you have usually between 7 to 8 turns to join the crusade you can use that time to your advantage by already starting to move towards the target city.

[eggthief]

Since you have usually between 7 to 8 turns to join the crusade you can use that time to your advantage by already starting to move towards the target city.

Well the downside is that moving takes a lot more time if the army hasn't joined the crusade yet.

[[Tar]Naru33]

Do not sail around iberia penisuela. They desert floating ship. Ye... people were strong at those times. They could swim couple dozens of miles with armor and etc. D:

Not sure if you are just being silly with that... They don't desert until you reach land. Therefore if you took too long to get the the crusade target while in a ship, the moment they hit land, it will desert. Also I believe back in those days many "landlovers" could not swim. They were strong, but not strong swimmers lol. Only few men/women and sailors knew how to swim.


Here is a way to avoid desertion. Head off early if possible and each time you are blockaded, take your General that is leading the crusading army out of the crusade. Next turn, it will tell you they will leave if you don't re-join; so rejoin it and continue. It keeps them from deserting thanks to blockades and unfortunate circumstances. Won't help when it comes to sailing I think, because I am not sure if you can join/exit crusades when your General is in a fleet.

Of course though, BE VERY WEARY of how many turns go buy and how many turns it took for you to actually join the crusade; in 10 turns the crusade joining ends. Watch out for that so you don't exit a crusade and not be able to get back in it.

[... where did it run?]

Not sure if you are just being silly with that... They don't desert until you reach land.

Try it yourself.

They do desert while being in ship. I get desertion messeges while ship is in the middle of sea.

[melkor1861]

a little trick i like to do is have 2 generals (in the same stack) join the crusade. put one general in your fleet to circumnavigate iberia with the crusading bonus, and have the other one (with the army) march across Europe to Marseilles and join up with the fleet there. While hiring a fleet is an option, you can usually only get like 2 galleys in the Med, which can result in your entire crusading army being sunk by the heathen navies.

[Double A]

This question has been asked and answered so many times it makes me want to cry

[jeff00seattle]

Next time I send an army on a crusade upon ships around the Iberian Peninsula, I will not declare that the troops are going on a crusade until the ships are rounding the straits of Gibraltar.

[painter]

Getting access to the Mediterranean is the biggest reason to either make deals with the French or take their lands.

Here is my strategy to get that access on M/M England games:

Turn 1, I would get Laurence Bidell the diplomat to acquire Angers (one of their two castles) in exchange for a small regular tribute of ~220 gold over twenty turns. Then I would send him south to Rome to get an alliance with the pope. Princess Constance of France will typically follow the same route as well.

Turn 4, while en route to Rome, you could try to negotiate with the French once again via Princess Constance who will hopefully be nearby to acquire Toulouse (their second castle and with a port in the Mediterranean) by increasing your regular tribute. This second negotiation will be much tougher and probably not likely to succeed without an exorbitant tribute. You may attempt to reduce this by allying with France first or as part of the negotiations for Toulouse. If you feel like it and your faction heir is still single, you could also offer to marry your faction heir to her (also creates an alliance) and remove her from France's diplomatic arsenal. For me, the regular tribute only increased to ~750 gold over 20 turns.

If you can manage to negotiate for Angers and Toulouse, you will have a safe corridor to move your armies through and hopefully to board some holks when reaching the Mediterranean shores.



Side notes:

I normally rushed to take Rennes and Bordeaux, via the sea if the ex-occupants of Angers blocks the bridge to Bordeaux, as well. The French usually fails to take Bordeaux when they had their chance. So I don't know how likely any negotiations for Toulouse will succeed if the French had gotten Bordeaux. Perhaps they will be more willing to be reasonable.

You will need to be a competent player to try this however, as this will tend to leave your armies overstretched for a while with French armies just a tile away from Angers and Toulouse. But if you're lucky, the French might have kindly built a Practice Range at Toulouse for you, as they did for me. Even if you're not, you only need to start constructing a Practice Range and start getting your hands on all the lovely longbowmen long before Nottingham or Caen can start to reasonably produce them.

Another downside, if you are an aggressive expansionist and you want French lands, is the alliance or the marriage alliance with France. You will either need to get them to betray you, or you betray them and take a massive hit on your reputation or use assassins to kill their King Philip and Prince Louis. If you have successfully taken Angers, Rennes, Bordeaux and Toulouse, and Princess Constance remains single or married to your heir, the France's succession lineage will be limited to these two as their other generals may not inherit the throne and they will not be able to get a new general unless they took more lands and or lost their non-inheriting generals. Kill the two and French lands will be free for the taking.

[Jared Sinn]

Another affirmative to the fact that they do desert whilst on water. Its one of those buggy little things about MTWII. As mentioned above, you always have to be moving in the direction of the targeted crusade point. By moving west initially to round the Iberian Pennisula, you are not heading in the right direction and your troops literally jump ship. Its a pain and there are probably a million or so threads about this happening, as well as a million or so ways to go about getting to the Holy Lands from England. I just answered one about 3 or 4 nights ago with my theory of heading east then south.