thanks. unfortunately i could not find any pics exactly from 1821 so not sure if the uniforms would have looked the same or not. about the dragoon, yes you are right it does look like he has a bayonet, strange.
Citizen
Re: National Revolutions 1821-1848
thanks. unfortunately i could not find any pics exactly from 1821 so not sure if the uniforms would have looked the same or not. about the dragoon, yes you are right it does look like he has a bayonet, strange.
Miles
Re: National Revolutions 1821-1848
Hi, this is to let you know that after hours of struggle I've managed to make Tudor a historical character able to be recruited. You'll see the results on the frontpage. I am also working on missions for Moldavia.
Re: National Revolutions 1821-1848
Polish uprising 1830
-banner of Congress Poland
Banner of 14th regiment of line - what is written: "These that want be famous in battle, 2 ways only they have: victory or death"
Infantry
Scythemen
Artillery man
Cavalry:
-Uhlans
-Carabinieri
General Staff
Last edited by DarthKael; April 30, 2011 at 07:16 PM.
Re: National Revolutions 1821-1848
And Polsih uprising 1863
eagle-Poland
Vytis ("the Chaser")- Lithuania
Archangel Michael (but I'm not 100% sure as it's late)- Ukraine
And army:
And as in previous post- scythemen
Citizen
Re: National Revolutions 1821-1848
Very nice pictures +rep. To my shame I had forgotten there was a Polish revolt in 1830. Hopefully we will see some nice Polish units in the mod!
Last edited by Wallachian; April 30, 2011 at 08:21 PM.
Civis
Re: National Revolutions 1821-1848
Sotericus Very nice going on this mod. A great idea, +rep to you!
Can't wait to play it!
Miles
Re: National Revolutions 1821-1848
Thanks a lot guys, +rep DarthKael. I haven't forgotten the Polish revolution. I'm not sure we are going to have a Polish playable faction for the first release, but we will definitely have a Polish Uprising mission - in fact HusserlTW just made one for our mod - Liberate Poland. In this mission you will get as a reward some unique Polish units. We could then go either for a second release dedicated to the 1830s uprisings and revolutions - Belgium, France and Poland, or for a separate campaign in the first release - which will postpone a bit our work - but it will worth the try - I guess. In any ways, I'll need your support for the Polish regiment names and some insights on the leaders - as except the picturesque figure of General Bem I am completely unaware of their traits. Meanwhile I hope finishing the Moldavian faction and missions. I will definitely need the help of Italian speaking fellow for the Neapolitan regiments.
Cheers,
S.
Biarchus
Re: National Revolutions 1821-1848
Your idea with a release for early 1830s revolutions is great.Originally Posted by Sotericus
In addition to the better known revolutions in Belgium, France and Poland we have a fresh one in Naples. As such, we could make a series of campaigns depicting the age of revolutions in Europe.
In regard to Kingdom of Two Sicilies (Regno delle Due Sicilie) I manged to gather some information, partially in English, partially in Italian (which isn't really a problem due to similarities between Romanian and Italian)I will definitely need the help of Italian speaking fellow for the Neapolitan regiments.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Hope it helps. Nonetheless, I'll continue looking for informations
Last edited by mircea; May 02, 2011 at 07:24 AM.
Protector Domesticus
Re: National Revolutions 1821-1848
Perfect Fliki Eteria unit! You could add just some Scared Bands of that type and the rest would be haiducs and voluntari.
Last edited by RO Citizen; May 01, 2011 at 05:25 AM.
[Col] RO Citizen
Re: National Revolutions 1821-1848
Polish Army during uprising:
1) Proffesional Army of Congress Kingdom of Poland- it was army with many officers as soldiers from Napoleonic warfare:
Line infantry:
1-8 pułk piechoty liniowej (Regiment of Line Infantry) - Line Infantry that existed before uprising
Hat of Ofiicer from 4th Regiment
9th-24th pułk piechoty liniowej - line infantry formed in uprising
25-26 pułk piechoty liniowe - line infantry formed in Lithuania
Pułki strzelców pieszych ( light infantry)
1 - 4 pułk piechoty -existed before uprising
5 psp - pułk piechoty - Warsaw's Children - formed (and equiped) in uprising in Warsaw
6 - 11 psp - pułki piechoty - formed throught uprising
Pułk grenadierów - Regiment of grenadiers- former regiment of guard grenadiers
Pułk weteranów - Line infantry formed from former veteran's units
- eagle from hut of this unit
Artillery:
2x foot artillery
2x light foot artillery
1x horse arillery
and that is 42 cannons
what is interesting: Polish army had rocket artillery (Russian didn't).
Cavalry:
5 regiments of Uhlans (Ułani)
Chevau-legers (Szwoleżerowie)
Carabiniers (Karabinierzy)
Jazda Kaliska - Cavalry from Kalisz
Jazda Mazurów - Cavalry from Masuria
Legia Litewsko-Wołyńska konna - Lithania-Volhynia Horse Legion
Legia Nadwiślańska - Vistula Legion
2) Non-profesionals:
Lithania-Volhynia Foot Legion
Many skirmishers from Galicia, the most known:
-Strzelcy sandomierscy (Sandomierz Rifles)
- Strzelcy sandomierscy i krakowscy (Cracow & Sandomierz Rifles)
- Strzelcy słonimscy (Slonim rifles)
- Strzelcy podlascy (Podlachia rifles)
- Gwardia honorowa piesza (Honor Foot Guard - students from University fo Warsaw)
- Gwardia Narodowa Warszawska – ( Warsaw National Guard)
Miles
Re: National Revolutions 1821-1848
@DarthKael: Perfect work - it is what we needed, indeed. Could you add some infos on some important generals?
@mircea: great job, too. I'll start working as soon as I'll finish the missions. I'll try to get some help, as we are in desperate need for modders. Maybe vadik will be available.
Cheers, all and thanks for your contributions - they are indeed very helpful. Just hope to make use of them asap.
Re: National Revolutions 1821-1848
This week I have very important exams but as I can't even sleep at night then maybe I'll find some time to do it.
Citizen
Re: National Revolutions 1821-1848
Here's some pics I found for the French army
1830 Chasseurs d'Afrique
1830 Chasseurs d'Orleans during the Colonisation War in Algeria, 1830-1847
And a nice picture for the Belgian revolution
Citizen
Re: National Revolutions 1821-1848
Also, besides these unifroms I found a few more great photos of the Romanian army and would like to suggest an additional unit: marine infantry.
Here is a photo of the marines in 1850 from the Bieltz-Danielis album made in 1852. The photo shows in order a "praporsic" (lieutenant), a "feldwebel" (sergeant) and a marine soldier
In 1870 new unifroms were adopted as follows
Last edited by Wallachian; May 03, 2011 at 06:34 AM.
Re: National Revolutions 1821-1848
Józef Chłopicki
1st dictator of uprising, he didn’t belive in vicotry and he was trying to negotiate with Tzar Nikolaj I, but he couldn’t agree to Tzar’s unconditional capitualtion of polish troops. Therefore he ressignated from his function but he was still fighting as general, he planned battles and led his man to victories in battles of Wawro and Grochow, where he was wounded in legs.
He was very experienced as he has gone through many campaigns (he joined army as a common soldier): - Russian-turkish war in 1788 (in Russian forces)
- polish-russian war of 1792 - Kościuszko uprising in 1794 - Napoleonic warfare: he was fighting in Polish Legion and Vistula Legion in Italy, Silesia, Espania and in Napoleon’s Campaign in Russia. In 1807 he commanded the first Vistulan regiment. In Spain he obtained the Legion of Honour and the rank of a French Imperial Baron for his heroism at the battle of Epila and the storming of Zaragoza, and in 1809 was promoted to be general of brigade. - In Congress Poland he argued with Grand Duke Constantine Pavlovich of Russia and left the army.
Jan Zygmunt Skrzynecki– next dictator of uprising
He didn’t belive in vicotory,too, so he has lost chance of fast and lethal counter-atack (though plans were already made by Ignacy Prądzyński). Before becoming dictator he fought well his battles (Grochow, Dobrow), as he was veteran of napoleon times, too. He entered the Polish Legion formed in the Duchy of Warsaw, as a common soldier and won his lieutenancy at the Battle of Raszyn in 1809. At the Battle of Leipzig he greatly distinguished himself and at Arcis-sur-Aube, in 1814, saved Napoleon from the sudden onslaught of the enemy by sheltering him in the midst of his battalion.
Ignacy Prądzyński-In November 1807 he joined the army of the Duchy of Warsaw and quickly advanced through its ranks. During the Napoleonic Wars he took part in the campaigns of 1809 (Polish-Austrian War) and the campaign against Russia between 1812 and 1814. For his bravery in the latter campaign he was awarded with the Golden Cross of the Virtuti Militari and the French Legion of Honour for his role in the Battle of Leipzig and the Battle of Waterloo. He was theoretician of military strategy and tactics adn military engineering . He was man who made plans of war with Russia- he was promoter of offensive, and coordinator of guerilla actions. In battle of Iganiam (where Josef Bem was chief oh horse artillery) he killed or imprisoned 5000 russians with his loses of 400 man ( Russians had artillery numbers superior to Polish).
Józef Sowiński– veteran of Kościuszko uprising and Napoleon’s Campaign in Russia as a chef of regiment of horse artillery where he lost his leg. In uprising 1830 he wasn’t arranged in fighting in field because of wooden leg, until he was let to be the chef of redout number 56 in Warsaw, where he didn’t abandon his men and was killed, as how he was killed is not sure (some say that he surrendered and then instantly killed by Russians). Anyway he is much known in Poland because although no chance of victory he stood tall and brave against so much bigger numbers.
Dezydery Chłapowski- he was orderly of Napoleon, gone throught campaigns in Austria, Espania, Russia. He dismissed when he heard than Napoleon wants to give Duchy of Warsaw to Russia for peace. Another man that planned offensive, but stoped by dictator Skrzynecki. He was even leading the charge of cavalry in battle of Grochow to let infantry to withdraw. He also took part in Greater Poland Uprising (1848).
Henryk Dembiński- He took part in Napoleon’s Russian Campaign, where he become captain. In uprising he was fighting mostly in Lithuania, defending Warsaw and couple of battles. Anyway he commanded Northern Army in Hungarian uprising 1848.
Wojciech Chrzanowski- He took part in Napoleon’s Russian Campaign, too. He was also defending Warsaw in uprising and took part in same battles as Henryk Dembiński. He also took part in Revolutions of 1848, he commanded army of Piedmont.
"And other times it's hope that saves the day"
Miles
Re: National Revolutions 1821-1848
Hi everyone,
This is first of all to let you know that I've managed, after several attempts, to make Filliki Eteria what it basically really was - a Greek army in the Principality of Moldavia. http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/6...050300001a.jpg. I've updated the front page accordingly.
@ DarthKael Good luck with the exams and don't overstay the night before (I tell you from experience). Secondly, very impressive work on the generals - I hope that I'll manage to make them as historical characters in the game (either replacing Murat, Ney, etc., either simply adding them... we shall see).
@Wallachian Interesting unit. Basically it doesn't differ much from the regular line infantry, so I'll make it this evening. I didn't know that Romanian forces had a unit like this - what where they supposed to do - monitor the Danube?
And secondly, I am on the point of opening another building site for our mod. It is the issue of battle dynamics in the game. I thought of this after having a glance at Kaunitz project which offers an in-depth insight on the relation between game's engine and historical accuracy. I wouldn't go that far, as we are going to loose a lot of what makes the game a game - but ...
I would still like to offer to the player a glimpse of what warfare was during that time and in the different cultural spaces of our campaign. So I would need your opinions on the following subjects, especially backed up by some historical research.
1. What should be the ratio between a figure on the map and a historical unit of the time? (1:4, 1:8 etc.) Otherwise said, what 120 Line Inf represent? A battalion? A regiment?
We should find some numbers of the armies of the time of the main powers and try to modify accordingly the number of soldiers - I would go for 1:4 and say 150 figures in a battalion.
2. How are we going to depict differences in military organization between great powers ? (schematizing Prussian disciplined, France strategical, Russian big, Austria multinational, etc.).
3. What should be the distinctive traits of revolutionarry armies - low recruitment costs, low maintainance, high morale, lack of organization, etc?
That's it for the moment,
Cheers.
Re: National Revolutions 1821-1848
Ok, trying to response for your questions I found out that Polish Army (proffesional) in 1830 Uprising was:
20 074 soldiers, 28 battalions, 28 squadrons, 42 cannons. And for example Regiment of Active Veterans count ~1000 men (500 at start to 1600 at peak and 882 in ending). And second thing- skirmishers. Guerilla units are not good counted, but I know there were many of them, atacking supply lines at backs of enemy and joining to army in battles as skirmishers. The biggest unit had over 1000 men- under colonel Józef Zaliwski (one of initiators of uprising).
Polish Army Officers were mostly veterans of Napoleon wars. Fall of uprising was done by 3 things: russian army was much bigger ( as I said, we had 2000 men and 42 cannons, they had 115 000 men and 336 cannons), lack of faith in vicotry shown by dictators and that initiators argued much, they also hoped for some foreign help- mostly French (but they've only managed to make Prussia and Austria not hostile, as making this internal russian case) and Popes, but he excomunicated all revolutioners, saying that they are fighting against their King (Tzar) who was given by God. (If u want I can make another post saying how other major countries were attitiuded (?) with uprising and revolutionares).
I wish I could find so nice pictures and infos like Wallachian, but many works were destroyed during Gemran occupation of Poland (1939-1945), as works were rare even before that, because it wasn't and still isn't famous topic among polish historians and common Poles.
Last edited by DarthKael; May 03, 2011 at 12:04 PM.
"And other times it's hope that saves the day"
Re: National Revolutions 1821-1848
I was talking with my friend and he found some book about cavalry from Greater Poland and here I got some unit- Kalish cavalry.Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
And unit of Poznan cavalry and Cracowers (cavalry from Cracow - date is 1814 but they were fighting in 1830 uprising, too )
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Sry that it is on side but that's how my friend scanned it to me
Last edited by husserlTW; May 11, 2011 at 05:45 PM.
"And other times it's hope that saves the day"
Biarchus
Re: National Revolutions 1821-1848
Once again, excellent work
Very interesting idea
Panduri were organized in regiments (1000 soldiers) headed by a polcovnic, and subdivided in 10 companies (capitanii), with 100 man each.
Cavalery units (mostly aranuti and several units of mounted panduri) was organized in squadrons (capitanii) with 50-200 man in case of arnauti units and around 100 man for panduri units.
Panţâri (in Moldova) were organized in 12 bands (stegauri) with 15-50 man each, later, their number was increased to 2,342.
Jomiri Rosii (in Moldova) organized in a single band (steag) of over 200 man, stationed in Iasi
Arnauti were organized in bands (steaguri) and numeberd 60 man in Moldova and 1,000 man in Muntebnia
After 1831, the armies of the two Romanian principalities (Militiile Regulamentare) were modernized and organized following European model.
The army of Muntenia included 3 mixed regiments, each with 2 battalions of infantry and 2 squadrons of cavalry (lancers) for a aggregate total of 4,656 man. In 1835, the 6 cavalry squadrons are merged in the first cavalry regiment, and by 1842, the 3 infantry regiments had a cumulated strength of 3,519 man, afterwards increased by 1,932 man. In 1843, Muntenia received 4 bronze guns (94 mm) from Istanbul, which were organized in a battery. In 1844 is organized the first companz of firefighters in Bucharest.
The dorobanti corps was reorganized in 1832/1834, with 1 tisti (band) in every county's capital, for a total of 1490 man per shift, out of 4,470 man.
The army of Moldova was similarly organized, but with only a 1,554 strong mixed regiment, with 1 battalion of infantry and 1 squadron of cavalry. In 1845, Moldovean army was enlarged with a new battalion, adding another 872 soldiers to its mixed regiment. Moldova also possessed a single 94 mm gun. In 1835 is founded the first company of firefighters (105 man) in Iasi, called Roată de pojarnici.
To this we could add poorer weaponry and lighter equippment (specific light infantry), preference for unusual innovative tactics (guerilla, fast attacks).
And DarthKael, excellent work +rep
Last edited by mircea; May 10, 2011 at 12:42 PM.
Miles
Re: National Revolutions 1821-1848
Good work, mircea. I'll give it a thought on how to implement your suggestions it in the game.
For now, I've finished the missions for wallachia, moldavia and naples as well as adding some minor tweaks.
I'll give a thought to some missions for greece and then we could think of a first release.
Meanwhile I'll open the work for the 1830 campaign, but this might take a while, as these months are quite difficult for modding (i.e. plenty of work to do in 'real' life).
Cheers,
S.
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