National Revolutions 1821-1848

[RO Citizen]

I guess scripting it's hard even for an experienced modder, so I don't think it will happen soon. Of course, Sotericus could ask TopHat for help, he's the High Emperor of Scripting and whatever

[husserlTW]

Hi guys,

Just a quick note before uploading some new pictures. It's a pity we cannot do such an event as to unite Ro.
However, I managed to add Romanian names (gave to Wallachia in faction tables the pirates names and then I modified in localisation. loc the pirates names. It will be pretty weird, as I might have mismatched some family names with forenames, otherwise it seems cool . I really want to add a intro movie to the campaign, but last time I tried it didn't work. Do you have any ideas how to do it? Thanks, and keep close

Cheers,

S.

I think it will be the only way to add the names (using another faction) because still no luck with adding a new name group (it still CTDs). It is easy to have forenames and surnames in the right order if you check the names table in db.

I guess scripting it's hard even for an experienced modder, so I don't think it will happen soon. Of course, Sotericus could ask TopHat for help, he's the High Emperor of Scripting and whatever

It cannot be done.

[Sotericus]

I think it will be the only way to add the names (using another faction) because still no luck with adding a new name group (it still CTDs). It is easy to have forenames and surnames in the right order if you check the names table in db.



It cannot be done.

Right you are. But for this you have to be sure whether, for instance, 'Scott' is a forename or a surname . On the other hand, if it's impossible to have an event of that scale, would it still be possible to add something like a 'historical event' that makes only a pop-up window with a text and a picture?

It would be nice to have something like that either, as you reach a year, or as you have conquered a province. Unfortunately that would suppose doing some scripting and I am completely lost with regards to this issue. Do you have any ideas about a thread on this?

Cheers,

S.

[husserlTW]

In names_table, names are separated in forenames m and f (male and female) and surnames b (for both).

We can add messages for assigning and completing missions and in certain turns replacing vanilla events.

[Sotericus]

In names_table, names are separated in forenames m and f (male and female) and surnames b (for both).

We can add messages for assigning and completing missions and in certain turns replacing vanilla events.

Right ! Name tables... I have forgotten about that. Now everything is all right. However I've been messing around a bit with the events (extracted the events table, added it to the mod, then changed the date for one of the events and also added the exporthistoricevents.lua, made the same change there and nothing). I am pretty sure that I'm doing something wrong, though I don't have the slightest idea.

[husserlTW]

You just take care of the texts and the dates I'll do the rest. Also missions must be decided if you are going to use any. I think missions must be planned by faction. Have in mind that that they have a meaning for the player only. AI will not follow them except a faction join another.

I can make easily any flag you like, there is not need to do all these changes you say and it will not cause any CTD. Just upload (or link) to any image of the flag you like, and the faction you want to.

[Sotericus]

You just take care of the texts and the dates I'll do the rest. Also missions must be decided if you are going to use any. I think missions must be planned by faction. Have in mind that that they have a meaning for the player only. AI will not follow them except a faction join another.

I can make easily any flag you like, there is not need to do all these changes you say and it will not cause any CTD. Just upload (or link) to any image of the flag you like, and the faction you want to.

A huge "thank you" for your help, Husserl . This way the mod will gain a lot of in depth and feeling. One thing I was desperately missing in nappy was the feeling of achievement or of interacting with the AI that was so nicely done in Victoria. Even if the events would be very simple or without any substantial effects, the idea is to have something marking the player's evolution in the game.

I'll think about some missions and some texts and I'll send them to you in a PM later this week (more probably this week end). As for the flags I'll do it tomorrow. If anybody out there has an idea about a historically accurate flag for Wallachia, and, this woul be really awsome, a nice flag of the 1821 uprising please post it here.

Cheers,

S.

[Sotericus]

You just take care of the texts and the dates I'll do the rest. Also missions must be decided if you are going to use any. I think missions must be planned by faction. Have in mind that that they have a meaning for the player only. AI will not follow them except a faction join another.

I can make easily any flag you like, there is not need to do all these changes you say and it will not cause any CTD. Just upload (or link) to any image of the flag you like, and the faction you want to.

Hi, Husserl. Finally we reached an agreement concerning the flags. We would be very grateful to you if you could add to Romania, this flags (if it's possible to have 2)

For the faction



and for the army this one (if it's not possible to have 2, then this one which follows should be the only Wallachian flag)



for Moldavia, this one



That's it for the moment. I'll send you later these days the text for missions and the turns where they are supposed to be issued.

Cheers,

S.

[Thiky83]

A little commemoration the 15 March from the eruption of 1848-49 Hungarian Revolution.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyZinkKv2dU
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungari...lution_of_1848
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12_poin...naries_of_1848

[Sotericus]

A little commemoration the 15 March from the eruption of 1848-49 Hungarian Revolution.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyZinkKv2dU
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungari...lution_of_1848
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12_poin...naries_of_1848

Nice info, Thiky. It will be really awesome if some Hungarian friends would help us in developing the Hungarian faction in this mod. The same goes for Serbian, Polish, Germans, Italians and Czechs. Maybe it sounds quite Utopian but we could really start planing for an international team dedicated to the 'age of revolutions'. It was, after all an European moment and though national memories sometimes separate us, history unites us after all.

[Wallachian]

Nice info, Thiky. It will be really awesome if some Hungarian friends would help us in developing the Hungarian faction in this mod. The same goes for Serbian, Polish, Germans, Italians and Czechs. Maybe it sounds quite Utopian but we could really start planing for an international team dedicated to the 'age of revolutions'. It was, after all an European moment and though national memories sometimes separate us, history unites us after all.

Yes, that would be indeed great. Some Hungarian honved units are a must for 1848. Also, from my knowledge Serbia was pretty much out of the Ottoman sphere since the 1817 revolutions. To be truly great this mod definetly needs some uniforms for these factions. At least some historical rosters should be created and rename some vanilla units that look remotely simillar, just get a feel of the time. Damn, i can just imagine all these revolutions French revoluions in 1830 and 1848, Greek revolution in 1821, the Carbonari rebellion and the 1848 revolutions in Italy! Damnn, the smell of gunpoweder is in the air

You'll have a bit of a giggle at this but here's the revolutionary flag of Tudor Vladimirescu

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Would not suggest using it though. Here's a better proposition, this is the civil ensign of the Principality of Wallachia in 1834

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

And here's the one for Moldova also in 1834

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Problem is that the war ensigns in the same period are a bit different. Basically when going to war the ensign would change. For example the military ensign of Wallachia in 1834 was this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Given the similarity between this flag and the later flag of the 1848 Wallachian revolution and also the flag of Romania I would suggest using this one. It has the Wallachian eagle on it which represents the traditional element in the flag, but it also has the tri-colour.

Another idea: is it possible to start the game in the middle of a revolution?

[Sotericus]

Yes, that would be indeed great. Some Hungarian honved units are a must for 1848. Also, from my knowledge Serbia was pretty much out of the Ottoman sphere since the 1817 revolutions. To be truly great this mod definetly needs some uniforms for these factions. At least some historical rosters should be created and rename some vanilla units that look remotely simillar, just get a feel of the time. Damn, i can just imagine all these revolutions French revoluions in 1830 and 1848, Greek revolution in 1821, the Carbonari rebellion and the 1848 revolutions in Italy! Damnn, the smell of gunpoweder is in the air

You'll have a bit of a giggle at this but here's the revolutionary flag of Tudor Vladimirescu

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Would not suggest using it though. Here's a better proposition, this is the civil ensign of the Principality of Wallachia in 1834

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

And here's the one for Moldova also in 1834

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Problem is that the war ensigns in the same period are a bit different. Basically when going to war the ensign would change. For example the military ensign of Wallachia in 1834 was this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Given the similarity between this flag and the later flag of the 1848 Wallachian revolution and also the flag of Romania I would suggest using this one. It has the Wallachian eagle on it which represents the traditional element in the flag, but it also has the tri-colour.

Another idea: is it possible to start the game in the middle of a revolution?

Good work, Wallachian. It is a good idea and I'll try finding a clearer picture of the Wallachian 1834 flag. As for Moldavia, we'll use that one.

The Uprising Flag is a bit odd, but I think it was a nice way of creatively using the relgious discourse and turning it in legitimating a progressive and emancipatory movement. It was thus assuring people (for which religion at that time was a central referent) that they had a divine mandate and a superior law was justifying their actions (these kind of utterances could be traced in Tudor's proclamation of Pades, but, oddly enough, in the US revolution also).

As for starting the game in the middle of the revolution, I think it is possible. It would mean to change the relations with the Ottomans to "war", to move Ottoman troops in Wallachian territory and create a small revolutionary army. Almost all of this can be done by hybrid-ing startpos. However, I'm not sure whether the game later on will be easy to play, as you would need money for the troops and so on. But I'll think about it.

As for the international part I'll try contacting some people and see if we can manage to add some new factions.

Cheers,

[Wallachian]

As for starting the game in the middle of the revolution, I think it is possible. It would mean to change the relations with the Ottomans to "war", to move Ottoman troops in Wallachian territory and create a small revolutionary army. Almost all of this can be done by hybrid-ing startpos. However, I'm not sure whether the game later on will be easy to play, as you would need money for the troops and so on. But I'll think about it.

As for the international part I'll try contacting some people and see if we can manage to add some new factions.

Cheers,

Thanks guys!

Well actually it doesn't have to be at war with the Ottomans. From what i recall Tudor Vladimirescu declared that he was still loyal to the Ottomans and the aim of his revolution was just to gain more freedom and remove the phanariots. As soon as the rebellion started Tudor sent a letter to the Sultan stating that his aim was not to reject the Ottoman authority. Of course, from a diplomatic point of view it made perfect sense as the Ottoman armies would have been hard to beat but he was also stalling for time to gain more support from his Greek Eteria allies.

And yes it would be great to get some other people to help with the international factions. I'm pretty sure i saw a Greek mod for Napoleon so that would be a good start.

Great pics Mircea +rep!

[mircea]

Very good research Wallachian +rep

Yes, that would be indeed great. Some Hungarian honved units are a must for 1848. Also, from my knowledge Serbia was pretty much out of the Ottoman sphere since the 1817 revolutions. To be truly great this mod definetly needs some uniforms for these factions. At least some historical rosters should be created and rename some vanilla units that look remotely simillar, just get a feel of the time. Damn, i can just imagine all these revolutions French revoluions in 1830 and 1848, Greek revolution in 1821, the Carbonari rebellion and the 1848 revolutions in Italy! Damnn, the smell of gunpoweder is in the air

In the first phase, the priorities are Tudor Vladimirescu's revolution, Moldavia, Filiki Eteria, Greece, followed by Serbia, and Carbonari uprising from 1820-1821.

You'll have a bit of a giggle at this but here's the revolutionary flag of Tudor Vladimirescu

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Maybe we should use it as a battle flag, for Tudor's personal guard of pandours. maybe a unique elite unit

I think that we should use the flags designed before the passing of Regulamentele Organice, which modified (modernized) slightly the flags and CoA used before. Maybe, if it is possible, we could change the flags, as result of an event.
In regard to the flag of the Wallachia, I found some flags and CoAs used in the period of Tudor Vladimirescu

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

CoA of Wallachia (1796)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ilanti1796.png

Ursani curch c.1800


Walalchian vulture on the door of Horezu Monastery (1807)


The CoAs of Wallachia and Moldova on Constantin Ipsilanti's flag (1806)


The CoAs of Wallachia and Moldova on Alexandru Sutu's flag (1819)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ruSutu1819.png

The flag of agie, with the CoA in 1822 (which seems to be the most fitting)

Unfortunately, details about the CoA and flag of Moldova in 1821 are somewhat flimsy, but Constantin Ipsilanti's flag includes a good CoA of Moldova. Overall, Moldova's flag usually had an aurochs/wisent on a red field

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Pe timpul celei de-a treia domnii a lui Scarlat Callimachi (1812-1819), Stema Moldovei înfãtisa scutul cu un cap de bour cu coarne, între care dominã o stea de aur si deasupra lor doi delfini, reprezentând tãrmul Mãrii Negre, scut care este sustinut de doi lei afrontati.
http://carlakia.wordpress.com/2010/1...rilor-romanie/

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

CoA (1765)


CoA of the Divan of Moldova (1807)


CoA of Moldova and its counties


CoA of Moldova in a fresco at Olari Curch, near Horezu

[Sotericus]

Another idea: is it possible to start the game in the middle of a revolution?

So here are the results of the modifications I brought in startpos. Till now no CTD and I think there will be none. .

First the diplomacy

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I might change these days the Ottoman's attitude towards Wallachia and tryng to make it more likely to attack (though with the AI you never now...). However I prevented the annoying sudden Russian attack on Moldavia which would occur everytime during the 2nd turn.

Starting army

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Note that the picture of Simion Mehedinteanu is in fact a portrait of Athanasios Diakos, a greek revolutionary of the time. I thought of not putting Tudor in charge of the army in order to avoid having him sniped by artillery, but still in charge of state affairs (as he is the Faction leader).

And a funny thing for concluding. The AI randomly generated an officer whose name is Alexandru Ghica, who actually was one of the Wallachian princes at the beginning of 19th century (1830s). So I wouldn't miss the chance of replacing his portrait.

Here it is

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Btw I forgot to say that I've added the last Wallachian units.

[husserlTW]

Though you might already know this page about flags:

http://flagspot.net/flags/ro-wm.html#ref

[Sotericus]

Though you might already know this page about flags:

http://flagspot.net/flags/ro-wm.html#ref

Thank you, Husserl. I've already put a them in the 5th post on this page . However, it is worth mentioning the fact that this is site has a quite thorough and reliable collection of flags, though the quality of the pictures could be better. I'll try finding a better picture for the flag Wallachian suggested.

I also wanted to ask you wether the game forces you to use the same flag for the faction on the campaign map and on the battle map.

I remember reading a while ago a thread about someone trying to have different flags for different units.

Cheers, and thanks.

[husserlTW]

Thank you, Husserl. I've already put a them in the 5th post on this page . However, it is worth mentioning the fact that this is site has a quite thorough and reliable collection of flags, though the quality of the pictures could be better. I'll try finding a better picture for the flag Wallachian suggested.

The naval ensign is very good but there are 2 (different the last 2 stripes) so you have to choose one.

I also wanted to ask you wether the game forces you to use the same flag for the faction on the campaign map and on the battle map.

I remember reading a while ago a thread about someone trying to have different flags for different units

.

I know that there where some tries but I do not know the results. If yu find something tell me.

[Sotericus]

In fact Husserl's last post with this link http://flagspot.net/flags/ro-wal34.html has good quality pictures (I had some of them already on my PC and I have forgotten about them).

So after giving it a thought I will post here the shortlist in order to chose one of them. Take a look on the site in order have an indication about the flags.

So here are the last canidates

Principality of Wallachia

1. The "Agie" Standard 1822


2. The 1834 Military Flag



3. The 1845 War Enisgn



For the navy there are only 2

1. The 1834 Naval Ensign



2. The 1845 Naval Ensign




Principality of Moldavia (here - http://flagspot.net/flags/ro-mold34.html#about)

1. The military flag of 1834



2. The 1834 Civil Ensign



Thanks again for the reminder, Husserl.

[mircea]

That's it. It is precisely the kind of historical insight we needed. You make a strong point here : "But it is highly doubtful that Tudor really believed that a favorable diplomatic solution with Ottomans was possible, at least not before a Wallachian victory on the field".

I'll try buying peace with the Ottomans and then hybrid the file. Then, again, make Wallachia a protectorate. In fact a protectorate with poor relationship with the Ottomans will describe best this situation.

However, from what I've seen until now (during the various tests), in the game the Ottomans are very unlikely to attack (except maybe if you play on VH/VH). Anyways, brilliant +rep.

Thanks for reputation
Ottoman's suzerainty over Valdimirescu's Wallachia was largely nominal, so maybe Wallachia should be free, which should increase the likelihood of a Walalchian-Ottoman war.

For the Eteria I have given it a thought. The simplest answer would be a Greek army (though this would mean doing some work). The more complex answer would be "I don't know but there might be a way". The guys working for The Great War were saying something about having a solution about representing the US in the Great war on the nappy map without having a faction. We can try asking them how this can be done. Anyways, for the moment I can't really imagine how.

For an early version , I think that a Greek army present in Wallachia and Moldova is sufficient. At the same time, Wallachia and Moldova should be allied with Greece and grant permanent passing rights to Greek armies.
For later version, the better alternative will be to make a new Eteria horde faction, allied to Greece, although I'm not sure is possible with the current engine.
But the simplest solution, although ahistorical would be to represent Eteria armies as armies of Wallachia and Moldova. Maybe we could design some events that will result in the disbandment or rebellion of Eteria forces against Tudor Valdimirescu's faction.

For Austria, in the game the relations are on "normal". The problem is that Austria will soon attack Wallachia - I think it is scripted to act this way. Again, I don't know how to prevent that.

We could relocate most of Austrian forces to Italy, maybe this will reduce their hostility. Alternatively, we could try to make Wallachia and Moldova allies of even protectorates of Austria, although this could prompt Austrians to declare war to Turkey
In the end, I'm clueless about how Ai works, and as such, these ideas maybe BS

In fact Husserl's last post with this link http://flagspot.net/flags/ro-wal34.html has good quality pictures (I had some of them already on my PC and I have forgotten about them).

So after giving it a thought I will post here the shortlist in order to chose one of them. Take a look on the site in order have an indication about the flags.

So here are the last canidates

Principality of Wallachia

1. The "Agie" Standard 1822

Although it isn't the most beautiful, I think it is more fitting for the first part of the mod.

Principality of Moldavia (here - http://flagspot.net/flags/ro-mold34.html#about)

1. The military flag of 1834

Unfortunately, the flags from the period before 1834 are all black& white, as such this is the most usable.