Vanilla Based Balance Mod -VBBM ~ FROME 2.0

[Prince of Judah]

I am changing the name of this mod to Vanilla Based Balance Mod, since I decided the game needs some minor tweaks besides unit size.

VBBM is meant to be played on NORMAL UNIT SIZE.

This version reduces the unit sizes of only orc-based factions.
I will be revising it when necessary.

Updated.

My objective is to stay very close to the original system, but make it so the player does not have to fight every battle in person due to the over-sized orc units. The player will notice very little, if any difference in defense and attack scores. I intend to make no changes to that at all unless I think it absolutely necessary, and I so far i don't see that need. There will be some minor tweaks in the near future introduced.



I'm in the process of another update, which will be big. it looks like I am going to have to change some defense and attack scores. I have found a lot of weird problems with the vanilla edu.

I forgot was I was just going to post this moment. DOh! Well on a side note, my msn and xfire are on my profile and my skype is the same as msn minus @aol.com. In case anyone is interested in testing MP.

The next EDU will restore part of the Lore previously consigned to oblivion because I see how it can be done as long as everyone who uses this mod plays at Normal Unit Sizes.

Update- Pikes are being rebalanced vs missile units and sword staff units.

Small Fixes for Dale and Dunland Pikemen. Dunland Pikemen had ap and too low of a spear bonus.

[Elitewolf]

But... Elves>>>>>>orcs! The basic elven infantry could kick middle tier OOTM if all unit sizes are the same!

[mattgoby]

that the ridiculous unit sizes for evil factions have put the good guys at too great a disadvantage!

Yeah but thats how it happened in the lore, gondor literally got overwhelmed through numbers same with rohan. 1 on 1 elf beats orc, human beats orc, dwarf beats orc. western humans, dwarves and elves would all beat the eastern and southron men due to there better training.

[Elitewolf]

Yeah but thats how it happened in the lore, gondor literally got overwhelmed through numbers same with rohan. 1 on 1 elf beats orc, human beats orc, dwarf beats orc. western humans, dwarves and elves would all beat the eastern and southron men due to there better training.

My point exactly!

How are the unit sizes unbalanced? I mean, take for example a Rohan basic militia, probably the weakest Good infantry in the game. Or hobbit militia. Both are stronger, or in the case of Harad, only slightly weaker then their counterparts in evil factions. They get more bonusses etc. And these are the WEAKEST Good infantry units. Hell, Elven infantry could cut its way through 3rd tier orc troops if unit sizes are the same...

I do think there is one thing which needs to be upscaled, and thats Rohan cavalry units. Those are at a disadvantage. But for all other units, ESPECIALLY elves, its too much.

[Prince of Judah]

Yeah but to make the game playable i is better this way. stats for large units are still larger than normal. units that were 250 now have 200. Units that had 200 now have 150. Any unit that is 150 or less have not been changed. Though I may do so later if elves need more based on custom battle testing. if anyone is interested in helping me with online matches my msn and xfire are on my profile.

[Rusery]

This mod compromises balance to a massive degree and ruins a lot of the lore. There is not much else to say here. The third age team got it correct the first time with unit sizes. I won't say the same for stats and abilities but the overall balance of this game is good enough to play.

[jackenbu2]

This would actually take away from the fun of playing some of the good factions as well. Not even talking about balance, which has already been discussed, but the delight of watching your elven infantry of any tier cutting through lines of advancing orcs would be gone. Instead they would kill a must reduced amount and the battle would end. Did you also plan on standardizing ents, trolls, berserkers and other special units into larger groups to match others?

[Prince of Judah]

I disagree with you completely Rusery. "Lore" doesn't matter to me at all. Balance, does. I don't see how this mod compromises balance. Uruk Hai easily defeat good infantry because they can simply widen the ranks and slaughter them. I plan on updating to unit costs as well. I haven't made any changes to super units and I won't until after I do extensive testing. I will try your mod when it comes out Rusery. If you can fix the balance than I will just discontinue mine.

[Baywatch]

Uruk Hai easily defeat good infantry because they can simply widen the ranks and slaughter them.

This MIGHT be true if it were just 1v1 and in very certain circumstances but, in an actual scenario (Army vs Army) it's not quite so simple and you've also completely overlooked that good faction archers already decimate orc factions, they have almost no cavalry to speak of, and their morale is much lower than that of the good factions. As a person who plays versus other people on a regular basis I can tell you with utmost certainty the good factions already have a huge advantage over the orc factions. The orc faction infantry may be a step above that of the good faction (I doubt this very much but evil factions rarely get their infantry within striking distance for me to even say for certain) but you're taking it out of context with everything else. If you're fighting a horde faction and you're throwing your mass of infantry at their mass of infantry, then you're doing it wrong. But, it's your game of course, don't let me tell you how to play it.

[Prince of Judah]

That is correct to a certain extent. But sufficient cavalry isn't always available and sometimes it does end up being infantry vs infantry. The ai also has to calculate auto-resolves vs each other and unit size and stats play into the calculation greatly biasing the results to orc factions. Plus I auto-resolve most battles because it takes too long to fight every one out. It is always true with uruk hai and usually true vs regular orcs.

[Rusery]

It all depends on how you want to play the game really. To me personally i have to have the lore to really get into it and i keep myself within its bounds. However there are balances available to you if you change unit sizes to X for each category. In my opinion you would have to reduce archer units and cavalry units to a larger degree to make this work evenly. But from my experience when i throw 251 Ukuk-hai cleavers at 150 or so gondor infantry they lose every time, and they have armor piercing. So i would just have to say best of luck and i hope everything turns out good!

[Jean=A=Luc]

But from my experience when i throw 251 Ukuk-hai cleavers at 150 or so gondor infantry they lose every time, and they have armor piercing. So i would just have to say best of luck and i hope everything turns out good!

Two handed axemen tend to do poorly vs sword & shield troops and other such "line infantry" in general. They should always be used for flanking rather than frontal assaults as they tend to fail in direct engagements even against units they're supposed to counter.

[Prince of Judah]

It all depends on how you want to play the game really. To me personally i have to have the lore to really get into it and i keep myself within its bounds. However there are balances available to you if you change unit sizes to X for each category. In my opinion you would have to reduce archer units and cavalry units to a larger degree to make this work evenly. But from my experience when i throw 251 Ukuk-hai cleavers at 150 or so gondor infantry they lose every time, and they have armor piercing. So i would just have to say best of luck and i hope everything turns out good!

i'll try that, thanks for the help. I would rather include lore but I did not want to make a major rebalance, which is why I hope your mod can succeed were vanilla fails.

[Prince of Judah]

updated.

[yobi_uk]

Thanks for the update, in fact the sizes seem reminiscent of another mod that balanced the unit sizes, I can't remember which though. The sizes work for me, as I often encounter full stock stack attacking me or invading my land a-scrum-ping and a-pillaging, it seems fairer...especially in my pov as I'm playing the goody...LOL

For my personal use I incorporated the changes in my amended EDU, as I've tweaked cavalry speed and made it comp wit Scouts SEE for FROME.

[Prince of Judah]

I'm in the process of another update, which will be big. it looks like I am going to have to change some defense and attack scores. I have found a lot of weird problems with the vanilla edu.

I am also repairing the lore.

[Prince of Judah]

Updated.